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Jay Sankey Forum Talk

Posted by Tom Ace on November 10, 2005 at 09:53

This post is form a Dutch magic forum half an hour ago.
A honest forum member posted an e-mail he received form Jay Sankey:




To all of you who, over the past two years, have warned me about doing
business with Penguin Magic...

...YOU WERE RIGHT!!

Actually, I've had growing suspicions over the past 16 months, but I was
still really hoping I would never have to write this e-mail. I was really
hoping that Acar Altinsel and Maxwell Murphy at Penguin Magic would be
willing to be team players. But no matter how hard I've tried to make
things work with them (and believe me, I've busted my butt!)in the end it
seems they are only interested in one team: THEIRS.

I remember once reading, "How relationships begin is often how they
continue." I also remember how, when I first began doing business with
Penguin Magic a few years ago I received literally dozens of e-mails from
concerned magicians and mentalists around the world warning me about "the
Penguin Magic business tactics." Even seasoned magic dealers warned me
about "those Penguin guys" and how they have a tendency to sell knocked-off
versions of other people's magic products.

At one of my earliest meetings with Acar and Maxwell, I remember telling
Acar about the warnings and asking him, "How do I know you will never steal
from me?" He replied, "Because we don't steal from our friends."

I now can't help but wonder if I was ever really "their friend" or just
someone else they planned to rip-off from the very beginning.

Silly as it may sound, at first I believed Acar and Maxwell. I believed they
would be honorable business people. I guess because I wanted to believe.
That's just the kind of person I am. I want to think the best of people and
it takes a lot before I finally come to distrust them. But as the months
went by...

They replied to fewer and fewer of my e-mails and phone calls.

Advertisements they promised to place in magazines never materialized.

The agreed upon hotlink from the Penguin website to my site suddenly
disappeared.

Checks began arriving later and later.

And all the while, I would receive at least a few e-mails every week from
magicians complaining about the disrespectful service they got from Penguin
Magic.

Then another strange thing started to happen. Penguin Magic started to order
much smaller quantities of some of my most popular products and in some
cases completely STOPPED ordering them...and yet they still advertised them
on the home page of their website! For example, over a year (!) went by
without them ordering a single "IN A FLASH," yet month-after-month it was
listed as one of their best-sellers. Hmmmm...

I started to have some very dark suspicions. After all, what could be
easier than having a printer punch holes in packs of cards and toss them in
baggies? And keep in mind that at this point they were the world's only
seller of Sankey Magic!

Then a few months ago, when I asked them if they were interested in joining
my newly formed world-wide network of authorized dealers, they jumped at the
chance. But AGAIN, almost from the very start there were clear signs that
they had no intention of playing by the rules...

For the first few weeks of September they posted many of my products at
lower-than-agreed upon prices and undercut all the other authorized dealers
they had just agreed to work together with!!
(In fact, up until the time of this e-mail, if you go to the very first page
of the "Jay Sankey Store" on their US website, you'll see that they CONTINUE
to advertise "Three Ring Circus" for $30 -instead of the agreed upon price
of $40 that all my other dealers are selling it at!)

And then in late September of this year, after they agreed to remove a
collection of "Free
Jay Sankey Downloads" (which I had produced as a way to thank my wonderful
customers) I received news that they had put them back up "behind the
scenes" on the Penguin website! (For all I know they are STILL UP!)

And in even just the last few days, the Penguin boys have pulled yet another
"fast one" and posted a parade of slashed prices on their UK website for
several of my newly upgraded products with the instructional dvds. Again
without my consent and in outright violation of the agreement they entered
into as an authorized dealer earlier this fall!

The list of Penguin Magic's transgressions and violations goes on and on and
on...

As I said at the beginning of this e-mail, I was realy hoping I would never
have to "go public" with this information. After all, a business
relationship is like any other relationship: there are private sides to it
and it can sometimes take everyone a while to work out the kinks and
overcome misunderstandings and miscommunications.

But recently, when I received yet more e-mails from some of you complaining
that you had in good faith ordered from Penguin Magic some of my newly
upgraded products and then received in the mail some of the OLD and
OUT-OF-DATE products (!!!)...well, I knew the time had come to expose the
boys at Penguin Weasel for who they are. I just wouldn't feel right if I
didn't warn you, especially after all you have done over the past few years
for me, my wife Lisa and my son Mason.

I'm also extremely serious about honoring the trust given to me by all the
other dealers in my recently formed world-wide network of authorized
dealers. Unlike the unethical cowboys at Penguin Magic, many of these
dealers have families to feed and long-term ties to the magic community.

I hate talking badly about other people, but there was simply no way I could
remain silent while Penguin Magic continues to pull the crap they have have
been pulling for way, way too long. If I did that, I would feel like I was
letting down far too many honest people.

With that in mind, I would like to ask you to consider boycotting Penguin
Magic. Despite their clever web-marketing, they are still nothing more than
cold-hearted, flightless birds who have only got as far as they have by
riding on the coat-tails of other far more honest and creative people.

As a creator and manufacturer of magic products I have the final say in who
markets my products. But as the all-powerful CUSTOMER you in fact have the
final say in who will sell any products at all.

By finally going public with all this information, I'm trying to do my part.
No I hope you do yours. Vote with your wallet and let's all work together to
make Penguin Magic extinct today.

Thanks very much for your help!

Yours sincerely,
Jay Sankey

PS. The fast-talking boys at Penguin Magic have only purchased a mere 25 of
each of my newly upgraded products with the instructional dvds. If they
continue to advertise these products for sale for even just another week or
so...I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions.

Posted by Eric on November 10, 2005 at 12:50

Wow.

Posted by marpenothi on November 10, 2005 at 14:14

Thats unbelievable...how two-faced of Penguin is that...

If people want to follow up with the boycott idea...definitely go to MJM Magic. They offer the same exact prices or lower than Penguin...and they give a 10% return customer discount just as Penguin does.

It's unbelievable that people and a business like Penguin would appear so nice, comforting, affordable on the outside...but on the inside be so conspiratory and corrupt.

Marp

Posted by fattyonadiet on November 10, 2005 at 16:05

yep. MJM Magic all the way!!! i cant believe penguin dogged him so bad.

Posted by deathorglory on November 10, 2005 at 17:02

Penguin just issued this:


Jay Sankey has recently issued a public statement in which he urges customers NOT to shop at Penguin Magic. Why?

1) PRICE. Penguin Magic refuses to fix prices. We believe that our customers (smart shoppers every last one of them) deserve to pay the best possible price. We almost never charge the manufacturer's suggested retail price. That makes some manufacturers upset because they get complaints from other dealers that they can't compete with our prices. Penguin Magic is the world's most efficient seller of magic, and that means we can afford to have the world's lowest prices. Other dealers may complain, but our customers love us for it.

2) QUALITY. Penguin Magic insists that suppliers provide us with the highest quality magic props and DVDs possible. We've repeatedly urged Sankey Magic to raise their quality standards, but unfortunately they've been unable to do so. Recently we posted a warning on Jay Sankey's Anytime, Anywhere (DVD) in which we stated that "Due to poor case design, this DVD may become dislodged during shipment." This warning may not have made Sankey Magic happy, but it was important to us to be up-front and honest with our customers about our quality concern.

3) TOO MUCH SANKEY MAGIC. Penguin Magic believes there is just "TOO MUCH SANKEY" being put on the market. We've repeatedly urged Sankey Magic to reduce the number of new releases they put out and focus instead on improving the quality of their items. Last year we were able to successfully convince Sankey Magic to adjust their release schedule from 12 new products per year to 8 new products. Sankey Magic may not have liked our cautious words, but our customers (and Sankey Magic's worldwide network of dealers) deserve the very best of Sankey Magic, not just the very newest. We pride ourselves in having an enormous selection, but TOO MUCH is TOO MUCH.

Specific issues between Penguin Magic and Sankey Magic are completely confidential. We haven't been directly notified from Jay or Sankey Magic that there has been any change in our relationship. Jay's a great guy, but we just couldn't see eye-to-eye with him about price, quality, and quantity of Sankey Magic. Our deal with Sankey Magic appears not to be working out anymore. We're sorry for that. For you (our customer) this will mean more magic from different inventors and lower prices on Sankey Magic products. We very much hope that Sankey Magic will reconsider their position and work with us to continue the relationship. Either way, we've got a lot of exciting magic planned for our customers.

You can count on Penguin Magic to offer you the lowest prices in the world. As always, we stand behind each and every one of our products with a 100% satisfaction guarantee. Thanks for being our customer. Please let us know if there's anything at all we can do to help you achieve your goals in magic.

Please give us a call or send us an email if you have any questions for us. We're always here for you.
-----------------------------------

It also seems that Morgan Strebler thinks that Penguin gipped him, too.

Posted by Homki890 on November 10, 2005 at 17:02

Heh, its funny. I was just on the Penguin Magic site after reading this, and the Three Ring Circus trick was bumped to $40. lol, someone must have gotten wind of that little "typo".

This is insane. I always thought Penguin Magic was good. Oh well, guess ill check out MJM now. See what they have.

Homki890

Posted by Michael Marino on November 10, 2005 at 18:56

I just heard about this in the MJM newsletter. Finally.

-Michael

Posted by the magic man on November 10, 2005 at 19:12

ha ha...TOO MUCH SANKEY?....i was thinkin of gettin some stuff off that site but i think i might of changed my mind...

Posted by marpenothi on November 10, 2005 at 19:33

Both Penguin Magic and MJM Magic say that they will always have the lowest prices available on their products...their low price guarantee.

Both offer free shipping on your orders.

Both offer a lifetime 10% discount on your order for returning customers.

Both have a huge variety of effects and products for purchase.

Which company will I go with? I'm a man of integrity and so should my magic dealer. I think I'll go with MJM.

Marp

Posted by Eric on November 10, 2005 at 23:30

deathorglory wrote:

Penguin just issued this: 3) TOO MUCH SANKEY MAGIC. Penguin Magic believes there is just "TOO MUCH SANKEY" being put on the market. We've repeatedly urged Sankey Magic to reduce the number of new releases they put out and focus instead on improving the quality of their items. Last year we were able to successfully convince Sankey Magic to adjust their release schedule from 12 new products per year to 8 new products. Sankey Magic may not have liked our cautious words, but our customers (and Sankey Magic's worldwide network of dealers) deserve the very best of Sankey Magic, not just the very newest. We pride ourselves in having an enormous selection, but TOO MUCH is TOO MUCH.

Posted by fattyonadiet on November 11, 2005 at 00:29

mjm also lets u shop in ur nations currency. this helps because of the difference in AUS and USD.

also mjm made it easier for me to ship to Australia and this is a big plus.

thats another vote for MJM Magic.

p.s. marp did u get a new sig? looks good.

Posted by Shadow on November 11, 2005 at 14:11

I think I would be upset if someone did this to me. If I remember it correctly this isn't the first time something like this has happened. And the Penguin "reasons" are also very interesting

Posted by DeadPeopleAllOver on November 11, 2005 at 14:33

Hmm, this is very interesting. I agree with Eric in that nobody should dictate the amount of products that are released in a year. Both sides seem to have some good points, as there are 2 sides to every story.

Posted by Maverick on November 11, 2005 at 15:12

@ Tom Ace
Hey man where you been?!? was looken forward for u to enterring the magic contest , mayb next time?

anyways i dont think much of Jay Sankey leaving penguin magic. Unless hes not making money, it shouldn't be a problem + Business is business afterall its all about the money

Posted by guppiejake on November 11, 2005 at 15:24

Thats insane Penguin is B.S a great magician out of work!!
I cant beleive that,

P.S. Do u think Ellusionist is doing the same thing ( i mean they are pretty well known) i gope Ellusionist isnt cuz my mom just ordered me ninja 2 for christmas

Posted by marpenothi on November 11, 2005 at 17:13

Mav...its not always about the money. In most cases it is...and its safe to assume its about money, but some magicians do it out of love and passion for the art. I would find it very hard to agree with someone saying that all magicians went into the business for the money. There are plenty of jobs out there that earn way more than magicians do, but performing magic for people is unike any job in the world. Some people do it because they LOVE it. As for making and selling products, I'm sure there are at least some magicians who made their products out of the desire to help other magicians and share their material.

Guppie, Jay is not out of work. It just sounds like he won't be doing business with Penguin much more. If you go to Sankey Magic's website, you can view a complete list of all the dealers you can find his products at.

Marp

Posted by Eric on November 12, 2005 at 17:38

Penguin still has the Jay Sankey section in place but I think a lot of folks are now buying his products at MJM Magic and Ellusionist instead.

Posted by Shadow on November 13, 2005 at 16:56

It's interesting that everything is so calm now. Does anyone have any news on this topic?

I've checked a few other forums. The most peoplea re usually with Sankey but even some Penguin members seem to be with him. I'm really interested what Jay's next step will be. Will he agree on the audit that Penguin is "offering" him?

Posted by Eric on November 14, 2005 at 17:43

I wish all this would have gone down BEFORE we did our Jay Sankey interview. There are so many new questions that I want to ask him now...

Posted by Shadow on January 20, 2006 at 14:10

It seems that the fight between Jay and penguin magic still continues. Here si the newest newsletter. It is long so I have highlighted the part I'm talking about.

BTW - congratulations, Jay

Quote:

IT'S A GIRL!!!! My wife Lisa gave birth to our second child at 10:20pm on January 18, 2006! God has blessed us with a healthy, beautiful little girl. I'm the luckiest guy in the world! Thanks for all your loving and supportive e-mails. They mean so much to us! ................................... AMAZING MAGIC & MENTALISM ANYONE CAN DO!! "Super easy stuff! I’ve only been in magic for a few months and now I can perform a TON of great magic!–Daniel G. "Serious, high-quality production. Jay looks like the star of a network television show!–Larry S. I’m a part-time pro and to me the real value was in all the real-world tips Jay gave. I also added FIVE new routines to my restaurant repertoire. I can't thank you enough!"-Mike N. A few year ago I dreamed of producing a set of dvds that would not only help new students of magic take their performances to "the next level," but also remind seasoned magicians and mentalists about the incredible power of SIMPLICITY! I also wanted these dvds to LOOK better than anything else I had ever produced! And so it was incredibly gratifying when Matthew Field (the video reviewer for GENII MAGAZINE) called them, "The best introduction to magic ever produced on film!" To make these dvds even more amazing, I recently had them re-edited so that all three volumes are now available on TWO DVDS. In other words, both DVDs contains more material than ever! But here's the REALLY incredible news, the price of each volume has also been cut by more than 30%! Priced at just $20.00 each, these two newly expanded dvds are set to become two of the world's best-selling magic & mentalism dvds! Dozens of magically easy-to-do effects plus a ton of real-world advice on performing, practicing, presentations and more! 2005 WAS BIG, BIG SUCCESS!! Thanks to all you for making 2005 such an outstanding year! Last year we released "Anytime Anywhere," "Razor's Edge" and "The Sankey/Skutt Sessions" and all three were big grinning HITS! Thanks too for all the glowing e-mails. I sincerely appreciate it. Here are just a few of the most recent reviews... "Out of all the Sankey Magic DVDs and effects I have bought, 'The Sankey/Skutt Sessions' is KING! The magic is absolutely sensational. I haven't finished watching it yet, but there isn't an effect I have watched so far that I don't want to learn how to do!!! Absolutely sensational stuff."-Phil W. "I’ve watched the Sankey/Skutt dvd four times in a row and each time I learn something new. 'No Way Out' is the best trick I’ve learned in years!”–Roger L. "What a Blast! Great effect. I have been looking for years for an effective way to hand out business cards. With 'Razor's Edge' my search has ended."-Steve P. "I recently picked up 'Anytime Anywhere' and I have to say it is a great DVD! Slow Motion Coins #2 is worth the price of the DVD. Thanks so much!"-Noel F. FIVE MORE WINNERS! We held our monthly draw of five names selected from all of you who have registered your recent purchases at sankeymagic.com and this month's five winners are: 1.Jason Powell 2.Don Werber 3.Terry Chargez 4.Monty Fox 5.Karen Smith Each of the five winners have won a FREE 2-volume set of our exciting February release: AMAZING MAGIC & MENTALISM ANYONE CAN DO!! SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL DEALER! When we launched Sankey Magic on a truly global scale in September of last year, one of our many goals was to give our customers more reason than ever to support their nearest magic shop. With that in mind, if your local dealer isn't one of our authorized sellers, contact them and ask the: "WHY THE HECK NOT???" Do they really want you to have to take your business somewhere else? (I think not.) So if your favorite dealer isn't one of our authorized dealers, tell the owner or manager to "get off your butt and contact Jay at jay@sankeymagic.com!" PENGUIN MAGIC: LESS FOR LESS! For all of you who have sent me e-mails asking, "Is Penguin Magic an authorized SM dealer?"...the answer is NO! As for their recent "Christmas Blow-Out Sale," it is in no way authorized by SM and we have not arrived at any kind of "agreement" (despite the fact that they continue to post a notice that suggests we did!) In early December PM asked to be reinstated as authorized dealers and we said NO. A few days later they launched a blow-out sale with a notice that read, "After weeks of negotiation we're reached an agreement with Sankey Magic that allows us to offer...etc, etc." An agreement? They asked to be put back on the team and we said "No." What kind of "agreement" is that? So the boys at PM continue to mislead their customers so they can unload old, out-of-date versions of some of our most popular effects at reduced prices. But keep in mind: you get what you pay for. NONE of the old items they are trying to sell-off include the new instructional dvds, registration codes (which allow you to enter our monthly draws for great prizes!) or the new bonus handlings everyone is raving about. Is saving a few bucks really worth UNDERMINING YOUR OWN CREATIVE GROWTH??? Penguin Magic: Less for less! Pass the word. MORE "JUST ASK JAY!" Last week We posted a few more great questions on the website. Check them out and let me know what you think!!! FREE TRICK OF THE MONTH: "HYPERSENSITIVE" I've been performing this impromptu freak-fest for over ten years. All you need is a coin, any coin, thumb palmed your left hand, and you need to know the date of that coin. The only other thing you need is a well-lighted performance space and you are ready to rock 'em hard. Ask a few people to place whatever change they happen to have on them inside a glass or -if you don't have a glass- they can just place it in a small pile on a nearby the table. They can even place all the change in someone's cupped hands. (Whatever suits your style and the situation!) Borrow a pen and ask a spectator to "get ready to write down a few numbers" on a paper napkin, business card or whatever else is handy. Slowly turn your head AWAY from the pile of change and ask a spectator to give the coins a bit of a mix-up. After they've done that, and with your head still turned away, slowly show your right hand undeniably empty and then reach down into the pile of change and remove a coin. Keep the coin conealed behind your fingers so that nobody is able to see the denomination of the coin and quickly close your right hand into a fist. Appear to concentrate for a moment and then announce the date of the coin palmed in your left hand. As the spectator writes down the date, open you right hand, raise the coin up to your face, note the date on the coin, nod your head in satisfaction and then casually place the coin into the left hand. As you do all of the above, the coin must remain behind the extended right fingers so that it is always hidden from the audience's view. Continue by again turning your head away, show your right hand undeniably empty, dip it into the pile of change and remove a second coin and hold it in your closed right fist. Appear to concentrate, then announce the date of the FIRST coin you removed from the pile. As before, while the spectator writes down the announced date, take a moment to open your right hand, raise the coin up to your face, note the date and nod your head in "humble satisfaction." Then place the coin in the left hand. (As before, all of this is done while casually making sure the identity of the coin is never flashed to the audience.) To finish (you are going to LOVE this part!) repeat the exact same actions a third time, but this time when you lower your right fingers down onto the pile of coins, only PRETEND to pick up a coin and hold it in your right fist. Concentrate, then announce the date of the second coin you removed from the pile and, as the spectator records this third date, raise your right fingers to your face and pretend to note the date on a coin. Smile, then casually place the non-existant coin into your left hand. Drop the three coins into the hand of the nearest spectator and shyly say, "I guess I haven't lost my touch." There will be no need to encourage them to compare the dates on the three coins with the dates the spectator wrote down. Notes: It's a beautifully direct effect and handling, but unless you've got the eyes of an eagle, don't try it in a bar or dimly-lit restaurant. The date on a dime can be pretty darn small! APRIL 1: NAILED! April 1 is the scheduled world-wide release of NAILED! It's a two card transpo on STEROIDS! The cards don't just changes places in space, they also change places in TIME!! It's an insanely commercial effect and ingenious gimmicks do all the work! Look for the advertisement in the April issue of MAGIC MAGAZINE!!!!

Posted by marpenothi on January 20, 2006 at 18:02

Some of that is a little bit of Sankey B.S....such as the "selling old out-of-date items". I don't care what you say, but a cord with a key on it is a cord with a key on it. I don't need an instructional DVD to teach me how to do it, I can read directions. At this day and age however, Sankey Magic has realized that people are too lazy and want to learn too fast to read directions, so they'll pay the extra 10 bucks to get a DVD with it.

I've got Mercuring and Leaving Home from Penguin because of that blowout sale, all for a combined price of like 20 bucks...the only things I didn't get were the instructional DVDs, but I still learned the effects perfectly.

Now, I have nothing against Sankey Magic and Jay is actually one of my favorite magicians of all time...but you have to keep in mind the sales pitches and gimmicks go both ways

Marp

Posted by DeadPeopleAllOver on January 20, 2006 at 19:03

It's really unfortunate that there is all of this mud-slinging between Penguin and Sankey (most of it coming from Sankey, from what I've seen). Both are obviously legitimate forces in the magic field. But business affairs - in my opinion - should be kept private.

I'm sure that very few people care about Penguin and Sankey having a "falling out". There's 2 sides to every story. Most people are only concerned about getting the best products for the best prices. Nobody cares that Penguin got Jay Sankey's panties all knotted up.

Sliding in cheap shots at any chance is not professional, no matter who's at fault. Penguin and Jay Sankey should concentrate on what they do best - provide customers with quality magic products, and keep their mouths shut about their business affairs.

Posted by Eric on January 21, 2006 at 17:55

This whole thing is bizarre.

It is kind of surprising that the Jay Sankey vs Penguin Magic disagreements are still ongoing.

The fact that Penguin lists the Jay Sankey store as the 3rd link down on the home page of their site could mean several things. Maybe they are trying to sell all his merchandise and end the relationship. Or maybe the feud isn't as bad as everyone thinks and they're making extra sales because of all this publicity.

The Jay Sankey page there has the title "Penguin Magic Agreement with Sankey Magic" near the bottom but it looks like there is nothing under it at a glance. A closer look shows that there is what looks like white text against a white background.

Hopefully both parties will end the feud soon.

Posted by Apoptygma on January 29, 2006 at 04:48

I realize some of you may be boycotting or avoiding Penguin, but I still think Penguin's customer service is great! I just wanted to share my thoughts about them since a few of you are showing the negative points of them.

I made my first order with Penguin recently and I was shocked at all the freebies I recieved! I even recieved the 10% returning customer discount on my first order! (A little weird I thought, but I won't argue with a discount!) My freebies included;

The Comedy Two Card Monte
The Penguin Monte
Sal's Three Card Monte (DVD)
Born to Perform T-Shirt
Black Deck
Free shipping + instructional videos.

I ordered a $5.00 random magic starter kit and they gave me 3 interesting items;

Hotrod
Magic Stop Light Cards
The Ultimate Three Domino Monte

Plus a bunch of other items that actually made up my order.

As a beginner to magic and a first time customer, this made a huge and everlasting impression on me. I will definately shop there again.

Posted by marpenothi on January 29, 2006 at 12:41

Yep, looks like you took advantage of their Superbowl Bonus Might I ask what you ordered? Sounds like you spent a bit of money if you got all the bonuses. How do you like 3 Domino Monte? I figured out how it worked but I was wondering what you thought of it.

Marp

Posted by Apoptygma on January 29, 2006 at 16:29

	marpenothi wrote:
	Yep, looks like you took advantage of their Superbowl Bonus Might I ask what you ordered? Sounds like you spent a bit of money if you got all the bonuses. How do you like 3 Domino Monte? I figured out how it worked but I was wondering what you thought of it. Marp

Posted by marpenothi on January 29, 2006 at 20:01

The promos seem to come every month or so, I try to wait for there to be good promos before I made a purchase...and usually I get everything in the promo because I save up for a month, two months before I buy.

I wasn't so excited about the latest promo...too many monte's. For me, Michael Skinner's 3CM does it, and I don't need like 4 other ones

NFW, Kids Kards, and Blizzard are all on my list for future purchases. Let me know how Cheek to Cheek is. I hesitate to buy gimmicked decks like that because some of them are lower quality or terribly awkward.

Marp

Posted by Aos on January 30, 2006 at 14:23

You'd be surprised but you will learn more from books than any other place next to a pro magician. The little downloads are fine, but books are where it's at. Maybe it's just me, because the only props I EVER use is a double/trip in the deck. But I'm guessing if you need gaffs and the like then Penguin Magic is teh suck. Boycot.

Posted by marpenothi on January 30, 2006 at 18:07

Speak for yourself, everyone is different. I like to have a big variety...I agree with you that books are awesome but not in all cases. It obviously fits you best just to use a double or triple in the deck as your only gimmicks...but some people like to use others, namely the thumb tip, wallet, invisible thread, etc.

Marp

Posted by Aos on January 30, 2006 at 18:31

	Aos wrote:
	Maybe it's just me

Posted by Occamsrazor on January 30, 2006 at 20:48

Jay is amazing, they are really loosing business by doing what they are doing. A lot of people buy his videos from them, I know I did.

Posted by Aos on January 30, 2006 at 20:58

I have a friend who acts, looks, and talks exactly like Jay. It's scary.

Posted by Occamsrazor on January 30, 2006 at 21:02

I love jay. His tricks are not storys there just done and they are different. Like Public Trans, so weird but such a cool effect with the whole in the card. Hes a good magican.

Is your friend who acts like him, is he bald?

Posted by Aos on January 30, 2006 at 21:05

lol he doesnt even know he exists, I dont tell him. Hes blonde and has short hair so it looks like hes bald.

Posted by Occamsrazor on January 30, 2006 at 21:10

Thats rediculous. I wouldn't show him. You can laugh and he has no idea why.

Jay Sankey Discussions