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Level_Five
Straight Flush
Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Posts: 292
Location: franklin, ma |
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 casino dealer |
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i think one of us actually IS a dealer at a casino, so...this might be a decent place to ask a related question.
what are the minimum requirements of dealing at a table? i'm sure it varies from place to place, but my friends and i keep sitting down at the tables wondering how they're able to get the rounds completed so quickly. i read into it a little (apparently there are training schools for this?), and we focused upon their shuffling techniques...but i'm still a little shakey. what should i practice? and once i get that down, where do i go from there?
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ah, bill hicks...you'll bury us all. |
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| Sat Dec 25, 2004 4:09 pm |
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cardcontroller
Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Stars 16's & 27's |
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schools for this no really?
um.....you havent heard of google.com have you?
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| Sat Dec 25, 2004 6:59 pm |
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expertmagician
Straight Flush
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 446
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I don't know much about dealing at casinos...but, years ago I heard that they do not like people who knew magic or sleight of hand. So, keep it a secret.
I think the casinos are concerned that you may use some sleight of hand against the house and deal your friends some good cards.
I don't know if the casinos still think this way. But, better safe than sorry.
Good luck !
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| Sat Dec 25, 2004 7:03 pm |
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Level_Five
Straight Flush
Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Posts: 292
Location: franklin, ma |
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um.....you havent heard of google.com have you? |
i don't know sleight of hand anything, nor do i care for it. but i thought that someone might know something about how to shuffle a !@#$in' pack of cards within this (card tricks) section. i hope someone else can help me better than these two. if no one knows anything, then just leave the topic out to rot...no one cares for your smart ass remarks...
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ah, bill hicks...you'll bury us all. |
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| Sat Dec 25, 2004 7:59 pm |
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cardcontroller
Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Stars 16's & 27's |
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you dont know how to shuffle? WHAT!? what are you talking about.
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| Sat Dec 25, 2004 8:58 pm |
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Level_Five
Straight Flush
Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Posts: 292
Location: franklin, ma |
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the google remark, and now this...what, are you five or something?
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ah, bill hicks...you'll bury us all. |
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| Sat Dec 25, 2004 11:47 pm |
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Chumpchange0001
4 Of A Kind
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 223
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CC, haven't you ever seen the dealers on TV? I think they know more than just your average riffle shuffle! That kinda stuff is what Lev is talkin about. So, post something intelligent next time, or just shut your pie hole.
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-The Unkown Loser's Prayer-
" Dear Lord, help me to break even. I need the money." |
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| Sun Dec 26, 2004 12:35 am |
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Fourth
2 Pairs
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 10
Location: Montreal Qc Canada |
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Whoa, some tension.
Well, I hope this helps...
I'm in montreal Canada and we have quite a large casino, they are very picky about their dealers. They prefer if you have attended a card handling course. Yes there are schools and courses available. They vary from card handling technique and all the way to controlling your players, (not their cards) but if they get angry, or upset...etc. They teach you how to spot a cheater...
If you are really interested in dealing at a casino, contact your local casino' PR person or HR person and ask for guidance. They are almost 100% willing to help. Think about it, there isnt a wealth of card dealers all in line to take the next available position.
Also, try looking in your phone book or on the internet for courses, or guidelines.,
And I would have to agree with Expert magicians statement, I wouldnt make it obvious that you know alot about cards.
Besides, they're technique may differ from yours, so I would want to learn their technique from scratch since, well, they would paying my paycheck.
Hope this helps Level 5,
and maybe everyone, we could do without the sarcasim and such. This is a friendly board.
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"If you promise to suspend your disbelief, I will promise to make you believe" |
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| Sun Dec 26, 2004 6:04 am |
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Acehigh
4 Of A Kind
Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 135
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anyone know how much they get paid?
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You know what cheers me up when im feeling shitty? Rolled up Aces over Kings. - Rounders "Worm" |
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| Sun Dec 26, 2004 11:14 am |
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marpenothi
Card Tricks Contest VIII Champ
Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 1721
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota |
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i would think maybe 10-20 bucks an hour...depending on whether a course in dealing is required. maybe more thats just a guess
keep in mind that they receive tips 
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| Sun Dec 26, 2004 5:25 pm |
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Level_Five
Straight Flush
Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Posts: 292
Location: franklin, ma |
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yeah, i heard that if they learn to go really fast and organized, they can add up to $7,000 more a year in rakes alone.
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ah, bill hicks...you'll bury us all. |
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| Sun Dec 26, 2004 7:46 pm |
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expertmagician
Straight Flush
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 446
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I am not sure of how to describe shuffling a deck of cards on a forum....it is something you must see and be shown. As you may or may not know...there are many kinds of shuffles.
The must common used in casinos are table riffle shuffles followed by running cuts.
Sorry, I don't know where to learn the basics of shufffling. Most magic books assume you know how to shuffle since they teach false shuffles, stacks, etc.
I do know that there are various schools to teach people how to be dealers in casinos...check the net or yellow pages. Which I could be of more help.
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| Sun Dec 26, 2004 9:31 pm |
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Shadow
Forum Administrator
Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 1567
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| Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:03 am |
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cardcontroller
Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Stars 16's & 27's |
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i don't know sleight of hand anything, nor do i care for it. but i thought that someone might know something about how to shuffle a !@#$in' pack of cards within this (card tricks) section. |
I questioned his stupid ass question. Anyway...
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| Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:51 pm |
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expertmagician
Straight Flush
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 446
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Believe it or not, when I started, the people I knew only knew how to do an overhand (Roman style) shuffle. So, I can believe his question.
Now, if he asked if you shuffle the same way with red or blue backed cards....that would be a gag.
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| Tue Dec 28, 2004 6:56 am |
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BaZ
Flourish Contest III Desc Champ
Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 929
Location: Outside the box |
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Believe it or not, when I started, the people I knew only knew how to do an overhand (Roman style) shuffle. So, I can believe his question.
Now, if he asked if you shuffle the same way with red or blue backed cards....that would be a gag.
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Im sure theres a magic trick there some where.
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| Tue Dec 28, 2004 7:11 am |
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CardSorcerer
Flush
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 40
Location: Los Angeles |
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Level_Five,
Good luck in your job-quest. I used to work in a Casino and have to say that it was a pretty memorable experience. What games are you looking to deal?
Although different Casino’s have different hiring criteria – today, they tend to be placing more emphasis on customer service skills. They want friendly dealers that will make customers feel less inclined to check out competing casinos (if indeed there are any around). Presenting yourself as an easy going person, with some customer service experience, should look good to them. I would avoid coming across as a hard core gambler. Some casinos do not mind this; however, many avoid hiring gambling addicts.
In regards to shuffling techniques, you definitely need to learn how to do proper table shuffles as well as running cuts. Try to get as fast and smooth at them as possible. As you know, casino’s want the games to move as fast as possible. Any extra time you are spending to shuffle a deck of cards, or count a stack of chips, reduces their overall profitability.
When practicing your table riffle shuffles, make sure to do so with the same deck of cards that the casino uses. If they use kem cards, practice with a deck of those – if they use regular poker cards, a Bicycle deck should suffice. When you practice, make sure to do so according to secure shuffling procedure. Although, procedure varies from game to game as well as from casino to casino - in general you: give the deck the running cuts before the table shuffle, do at least 2 table shuffles in a row, and end the sequence with a shuffle. Then you cut the cards. Although, all of this may sound pointless, by utilizing secure shuffling procedure, it limits (but does not eliminate), the opportunity to employ false shuffles and other sleight of hand. On the job, they will probably teach some version of this procedure as well as to clear your hands for the camera.
I hope this provides some insight to help you accomplish your endeavors. Again, good luck, and let us know how things turn out.
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- CardSorcerer |
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| Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:54 pm |
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Level_Five
Straight Flush
Joined: 08 Oct 2004
Posts: 292
Location: franklin, ma |
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^ THAT was an EXCELLENT response, thank you very, VERY much!!!
this should help me, basically i knew most of this and have been practicing tutone's riffle shuffle for nearly an entire year now, so i'm kinda good at that. i think i just need to move everyone's chips around efficiently, getting the game moving, and setting up for the next round of hands. is there a certain order to shuffle and cut the cards? if i can remember correctly, there are about 3-4 riffle shuffles, 3-4 quick cuts, throwing down the card cove to the felt, putting half the deck onto the cover, and then the other half atop of that (another half cut thingy)...pick it up and shuffle. i suppose it's just practice, right? i didn't know that customer service was so important, but it makes too much sense to deny. no, i'm not especially looking for a job at a casino...but i think it'd be great to know that part of the game...maybe host some tournaments at home amoungst the local poker allstars (and there are a lot 'round these parts). i'll be playing a game tonight, maybe i'll shuffle for everyone!
(end of scattered thoughts)
thanks again.
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ah, bill hicks...you'll bury us all. |
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| Wed Dec 29, 2004 7:52 pm |
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CardSorcerer
Flush
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 40
Location: Los Angeles |
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Procedure varies widely; however, if you are doing table shuffles, here is a good secure shuffling procedure you can follow. Give the deck a running cut (TuTone’s Box Cut) then give it two table riffle shuffle (see TuTone’s Riffle shuffle). Then give the deck another running cut and finish with a table riffle shuffle. The cut (not the running cut), if performed by the dealer, should then be done with one hand and onto the cut card. If you desire the cards to be more randomized, add another leg of running cuts and shuffles to the sequence. Of course, these are just general basics to follow. Many casino games have unique procedures on top of this.
Shuffling the deck in this manner does not go unnoticed and limits the amount of sleight of hand that can be used at the table. Interestingly enough, many casino dealers follow secure shuffling procedure; but, really have no idea of its importance.
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- CardSorcerer |
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| Fri Dec 31, 2004 4:38 pm |
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TuTone
Straight Flush
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 432
Location: San Diego, CA |
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at the casino i work at they had a training course to deal poker.....they taught us to do a short wash of the cards to slightly randomize them then riffle shuffle once then to a 'box' cut then shuffle twice more and cut onto cut card........this is to ensure no card can be followed in the deck......hope this helps........in vegas they have 'dealing schools'........but you might be able to take a training course at your local casino.......hope this helps.......if u have any further questions about dealing just send me a PM and i'll be happy to help
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'If you can't spot the sucker in your first half hour at the table, then you are the sucker.'
- Matt Damon as 'Mike McDermott' in Rounders |
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| Fri Dec 31, 2004 5:15 pm |
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expertmagician
Straight Flush
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 446
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You may also notice that casinos today want you to stick by STRICT shuffling proceedures. This is because thay have learned to analyze shuffle patterns and how they randomize or don't randomize the cards.
As it turns out, human beings have a difficult time breaking patterns in the cards. This fact used to be used to tha advantage of card counters. In addition, casinos also found out that since most play blackjack using simular strategies....they discovered that patterns developed over time. This knowledge of pattern development was used by card counters against the house.
The casinos wanted to break these patterns and make sure the cards are WELL mixed. This causes the players to get more "bust" hands "12-16", which is better for the house.
The new shuffling patterns are designed to break up these patterns and make "shuffle tracking" more difficult. Now, as you may notice, the casinos are starting to use shufflemaster style machines which is guaranteed to break up these patterns and cause more "bust hands".
This is one reason I will never play when a machine shuffles the cards. I don't like getting 12-16 for my first 2 cards when playing blackjack. Video blackjack has this same issue. Since a computer shuffles, the cards are too randomly distributed. In addition, the computer shuffles after EVERY hand which makes the problem even worse.
Bottom line, if you want to learn to shuffle and deal for a casino, that is fine but be aware that you will have to shuffle exactly the way the casino wants and you may be displaced by a shuffling machine.
Side note: Even with all of what I discussed above, blackjack is still one of the best casino games, with the lowest house take....if you know what you are doing. In the old days (during the 1970s and easly 1980s), I used to play blackjack to make money, now you can't get the edge over the house the way you used to, so it is not worth my time, unless I just feel like gambling.
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| Fri Dec 31, 2004 7:32 pm |
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TuTone
Straight Flush
Joined: 17 Feb 2004
Posts: 432
Location: San Diego, CA |
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even if u do have the shuffler you still have to know how to deal the cards and keep the game going so you'd still go to training
_________________
'If you can't spot the sucker in your first half hour at the table, then you are the sucker.'
- Matt Damon as 'Mike McDermott' in Rounders |
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| Sat Jan 01, 2005 10:57 am |
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expertmagician
Straight Flush
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 446
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Good point !!!!!
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| Sat Jan 01, 2005 3:59 pm |
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