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Eric
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Posts: 2480
Location: California |
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 Flexibility of Cards - KEM vs Bike |
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kem cards are among the most flexible I have seen. I think this is one of the reasons some casinos use them. They are hard to mark and when they are bent they bend right back into shape. They are extremely durable.
Here if a video of a kem card being bent severely and then springing back into shape.
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| Tue Jan 18, 2005 10:22 pm |
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Eric
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Posts: 2480
Location: California |
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Here's a Bike Card bending. Notice that it does not go back to the normal shape the way the kem Card does.
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| Tue Jan 18, 2005 10:32 pm |
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marpenothi
Card Tricks Contest VIII Champ
Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 1721
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota |
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Thanks...thats very helpful. The only reason i would prefer Bikes would be because the Braue Pop Up Move is possible. That trick wont work for kem cards.
Now my question for you is this...are kem cards the same dimensions as Bikes? I might consider buying some if they are. My hands are trained with Bikes and I would think the pass would be more difficult with smaller or larger cards that what im used to.
marp
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| Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:19 pm |
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Chipmaster
Card Tricks II, Chip Tricks III Champ
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 790
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Thanks...thats very helpful. The only reason i would prefer Bikes would be because the Braue Pop Up Move is possible. That trick wont work for kem cards.
Now my question for you is this...are kem cards the same dimensions as Bikes? I might consider buying some if they are. My hands are trained with Bikes and I would think the pass would be more difficult with smaller or larger cards that what im used to.
marp |
You can get kems in bridge or poker size just like any other cards.
But if you are thinking of kems for magic or flourishes then that is a bad move....perhaps your worst choice.
Now if you want a card that can handle drunken poker player abuse then kems are your best choice.
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| Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:23 pm |
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Eric
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Posts: 2480
Location: California |
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You can get kems in bridge or poker size just like any other cards.
But if you are thinking of kems for magic or flourishes then that is a bad move....perhaps your worst choice.
Now if you want a card that can handle drunken poker player abuse then kems are your best choice. |
My Bicycle Cards are poker dimensions so they are 1/4 inch wider than my kem cards which are bridge dimensions.
Chipmaster is right, people have talked about this in other threads. kem cards are good for poker because they are durable. However, kem cards are not good for card flourishes.
I know Shadow likes using Bicycle Cards for flourishes.
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| Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:14 am |
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Shadow
Forum Administrator
Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 1562
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Yes, kem cards aren't the best choice for magic or flourishes (except water flourishes and learning the spring). Paper cards are (of course not all paper cards) are a lot better.
Bicycle cards are really good. Tally-Hos are probably the best of "common" cards.
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| Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:10 am |
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Chipmaster
Card Tricks II, Chip Tricks III Champ
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 790
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Bicycle cards are really good. Tally-Hos are probably the best of "common" cards. |
I always here about how good Tally's are but have never seen them in my life. Can they be purchased at any normal stores or do you have to get them online or at a magic shop?
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There are 10 kinds of people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.
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| Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:05 am |
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CardSorcerer
Flush
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 40
Location: Los Angeles |
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It is amazing how durable kem cards are. While Bicycle cards can be ruined within minutes when handled abusively – kem cards will keep going and going. Unfortunately, the finish on kem cards makes many sleights and flourishes difficult to perform.
Another durable plastic playing card worth checking out are Copag cards. They are as durable as kem cards and have a finish more akin to that of regular playing cards. This produces a firmer playing card that better accommodates sleight of hand as well as some difficult flourishes . They are available in both bridge size (narrow) and poker size (wide).
Here is a video of how Copag cards return to their original shap after being aggressively squeezed and bent.
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Last edited by CardSorcerer on Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:52 am; edited 3 times in total |
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| Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:02 pm |
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BaZ
Flourish Contest III Desc Champ
Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 929
Location: Outside the box |
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Bicycle cards are really good. Tally-Hos are probably the best of "common" cards. |
I always here about how good Tally's are but have never seen them in my life. Can they be purchased at any normal stores or do you have to get them online or at a magic shop? |
I ordered a few sets of bikes of tinternet, and they gave me Tallys instead.
Work all the same to me, I guess Tallys need less braking in.
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| Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:17 pm |
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Shadow
Forum Administrator
Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 1562
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I buy Tally-Hos for 2$ per deck (this doesn't include the delivery price which is somewhere around 2.5$ per deck for me  ). But if you live in States, then it's quite cheap I think.
I think I have some other plactic cards here. Fournier Vitoria from Spain. If I remeber it well they had some finish but that was long time ago because I used them a lot. Now it's impossible to fan them. I remember that they were usable for fanning. I will upload the flexibilty video tomorrow.
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| Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:17 pm |
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Shadow
Forum Administrator
Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 1562
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Ok, here is the video of Fournier Vitoria cards manufactured in Spain. I remember that they used to be good but the cards used in video are quite old.
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| Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:25 am |
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Tom Ace
4 Of A Kind
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 209
Location: Maastricht, the Netherlands |
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Plastic cards... I'm not sure what to think about that.
Some casino's already have these kem cards, and prefer them above regular (paper) playing cards. I can't say I'm not interested in those kem cards. Maybe I should order a deck of kem's . Anyone an idea how much you pay for a regular poker sized kem card deck?
I watched the clips here , and the kem cards are indeed very flexible.
I'm curious if cheating is harder with these cards.
Maybe some shuffles, dealing...
@ Viktor: Those Copag cards look really nice too. And they handle a bit better you said. I guess I need to try both of them 
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| Sat Jan 22, 2005 10:18 am |
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Shadow
Forum Administrator
Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 1562
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Casinos also prefer plastic decks becuase they last much longer than the regular cards (you can wash them for instance). And there isn't very big difference between paper and plastic for normal poker dealing. The riffle shuffle might be even easier with new plastic cards than with new paper cards.
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| Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:48 am |
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Tom Ace
4 Of A Kind
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 209
Location: Maastricht, the Netherlands |
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I can see that casino's prefer those plastic cards. But I hope that not all the casino's will swich their paper cards for kem cards. Personally, I think that cards should be made from paper, not plastic. And I can't get rid of the idea that plastic cards are not as flexible as paper cards. Plus, they look so cold. And I like my cards rather hot then cold 
I could be wrong ofcourse, and please tell me if I am.
Hopefully someone can answer my question how some gambling sleights work on plastic cards: Bottom dealing, second dealing, riffle shuffle, crimp , false cuts, palming etc.
I hope to hear from you guys!
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"Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today"
-James Dean- |
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| Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:45 am |
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Chipmaster
Card Tricks II, Chip Tricks III Champ
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 790
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| chicks dig me. |
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I can see that casino's prefer those plastic cards. But I hope that not all the casino's will swich their paper cards for kem cards. Personally, I think that cards should be made from paper, not plastic. And I can't get rid of the idea that plastic cards are not as flexible as paper cards. Plus, they look so cold. And I like my cards rather hot then cold
I could be wrong ofcourse, and please tell me if I am.
Hopefully someone can answer my question how some gambling sleights work on plastic cards: Bottom dealing, second dealing, riffle shuffle, crimp , false cuts, palming etc.
I hope to hear from you guys! |
Well, you are not wrong to like paper cards better but the plastic ones are definately better in the casinos. They last much longer and can't be marked as easy as paper ones.
The plastic kem's are definately not good for magic or flourishes though....stick with Bikes.
_________________
There are 10 kinds of people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.
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| Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:54 pm |
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CardSorcerer
Flush
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 40
Location: Los Angeles |
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Hi Tom Ace,
kem’s handle differently than regular cards and take some getting use to. If you are used to a Bicycle deck, it will seem like kem cards are horrible for accomplishing difficult sleight of hand. However, someone who only uses kem cards will probably say the exact same thing about Bicycle cards.
The main restriction on sleight of hand with kem’s is their non-slippery finish. Doing a strike second deal with a kem deck is extremely difficult. However, the double push-off second deal can be done without any impairment. While kem cards are harder to mark, there are still a few crimps and other techniques that can be done during a magic trick to mark them. Some peaks which bend the cards, such as the bubble peak, are easier to do with kem cards. I think palming is slightly easier with a kem deck – some hand mucking sleights are probably easier to do as well. You can see a picture of me palming a kem card at http://www.cardsorcerer.com/plastic.php
A plus playing cards and Copag cards feel a lot closer to USPC playing cards than kem cards do. This is because of the finish they use. Which type of deck you use is really personal preference though. If you purchase a plastic deck, do not expect it to handle the same way as Bicycle cards because they will not.
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| Mon Jan 24, 2005 4:39 pm |
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cardcontroller
Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Stars 16's & 27's |
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If you go to the store...kems come in a pack of two for about $22. Im gonna try Copag, very cool.
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| Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:30 pm |
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CardSorcerer
Flush
Joined: 29 Jun 2004
Posts: 40
Location: Los Angeles |
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cardcontroller,
If you purchase Copag cards online, I would recommend going through www.cardsbycopag.com They ship fast and are a very reliable company to deal with.
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| Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:25 pm |
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Tom Ace
4 Of A Kind
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 209
Location: Maastricht, the Netherlands |
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@ everyone
Thanks for the fast reply!
I think I'll stick with my bikes , but I definitely gonna try these plastic cards
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"Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today"
-James Dean- |
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| Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:20 am |
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