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venom trickshots
Straight Flush
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 324
Location: Kingersheim--Alsace--France |
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 masse cue |
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3 month ago I had buy a cheap longoni masse cue, I was very happy of the product BUT yesterday, I broke it when I tried a masse jump!!I broke the wood!!!!So i ask the question: what kind of cue use artistic pool players for the masse jump????Also if anyone know where I can buy a GOOD and resistant masse cue it must be cool...
About the masse jump,is it possible to make long a distance masse with a jump cue or a break cue?Because I don't have a good jump cue but I know they are more resistant ...
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| Thu Dec 27, 2007 4:25 pm |
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emuskova
4 Of A Kind
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 156
Location: Chittagong-Bangladesh-south asia -Earth |
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yow uses a dieckman cue .... tim uses crown i guess ..... vash and jake uses schuler ..... i heard mike masse prefers schuler too ..... i use... fu*k i dont have even a reguler cue 
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| Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:48 pm |
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tmacandcheese
Straight Flush
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 286
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i dont ahve a masse cue. when we first made the pool table the room was too small so i got a mini cue thats 16 Oz. thats what i use. but im not very good w/ real masse cues
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| Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:00 am |
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freemedic30
4 Of A Kind
Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 75
Location: Florida |
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I don't have a masse cue per say, but I started using a trouble shooter to do my masse's. It's pretty decent for that purpose. Although for certain masse shots I still use my Predator Z2. Don't like doing that but, it's the only way I can get enough cue action to pull them off sometimes. Anyway, give a shorter and slightly heavier stick a try. It works for me in most instances.
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| Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:53 am |
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trickshottim
Full House
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 59
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Maybe if your jump or break cue has a leather tip. I can't get enough spin with a phenolic tip to masse back after the jump or over long distances.
I use Crown Cues masse cues. I'm not sure what Mike Massey uses now, but it could be a Chilton or Dieckman. I have done jump masses with my McDermott cue (19 Oz, 13mm shaft), but I'm not as consistent with that. Crown Cues are a good value as they are pretty inexpensive compared to the others and they've held up well for me.
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| Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:45 am |
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ppooler
Straight Flush
Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 287
Location: Czech republic |
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I broken the tip by a hard masse jump several times, so I am cut down the tip and fix next one, now is the shaft 14 mm,:-)but better is a metal tip, like Yow used... I am going to fix it , to one shaft, next time ...(btw: what is the noun for the plastic 'bole' on the cue ?)
I can pretty well perform only the basic version of masse jump (when the cue ball starts in rack and along rail is a cue) and I'm not consistent with the others, yet. Perharps, I never will 'cause it's a little bit more difficult, than I've been thinking before:-)...(Clearly, slate isn't that suitable for the masse jump shots, like hard plywood board is .)
I experimenting with a bunch of different kind of tip, and the results are also, very different...actually, I don't know what the best tips for masse shots are. Anyway, Yow use Sniper tips according to him ...
Maybe Yow could have any knowledge for that topic...
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| Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:03 pm |
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venom trickshots
Straight Flush
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 324
Location: Kingersheim--Alsace--France |
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thanks for this precisions!
About your responses, I ve 3 questions:
to trickshottim:
I searched on internet, but I don't found the price of a crown cue for the masse, What do you mean by relatively inexpensive?I don't know if i have correctly understand but i saw that a dieckman cue is 2000dollars???wow thats expensive!!!
my jump cue has a phenolic tip, so I also dont get enough spin for a masse jump...
To ppooler:
I also seen that sayginer use metal tip, maybe it's the secret of the resistance^^
If i understand the good masse cue is 14mm with a metal tip and with sniper tip!thanks for your response!
Last question:the wood of my shaft is just fissured on 1cm long after the tip. do you think it's possible to cut this part and fix a metal tip???
And I also hope that Yow can give us his knowledge for that topic...
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| Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:20 pm |
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freemedic30
4 Of A Kind
Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 75
Location: Florida |
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Stephano Pelinga recommends a shorter, heavier cue with a fairly hard tip for doing masse shots. On his videos he talks a little about that. Of all the tips though, I find that the everest tips do the best for me when it comes to the use of any kind of English, to include masse shots.
As far as where to find an actual masse cue, I'm clueless. Looked in a lot of places and haven't found any. That's why I am improvising with a "trouble shooter" cue until I can afford one like the pros use. Anyone know where to find one?
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| Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:41 am |
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venom trickshots
Straight Flush
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 324
Location: Kingersheim--Alsace--France |
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| Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:05 am |
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yow
ericyow.com Forums Admin
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 259
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Sniper tips, period, as far as I'm concerned. If you can't/won't use them, LePro's are as good as anything else in my opinion. They're cheap enough that you can scuff them often and just replace when worn.
Dieckman's are the best I've played with, though I shot with Javier's Schuler and liked it. Massey uses Dieckman and has 3 or 4 of varying weights, like me. I like having a brass ferrule. They simply cannot be broken. I think Pavel meant that his ferrules are breaking, not his tips, btw. Metal tips won't work. Nor do phenolic tips for what we're trying to do.
Incidentally, Dieckman's Magic Wandzzz are expensive but well worth it. You can get a custom one for $1100 nowadays.
Who's going to be at Tom's Artistic Cup? He needs a projector for his laptop.
-yow!
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The Lord is to be praised for all that I am. |
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| Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:14 am |
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ppooler
Straight Flush
Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 287
Location: Czech republic |
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Yes, I meant ferrule (I can't still remember such words, but it's probably normal  )
OK, so I'm going to try the brass ferrule, with a LePro's tip. It must be a good combination... 
Anyway, build a good masse cue from a quality regular cue isn't complex, I think, if you have access to a lathe.
Such process do not takes more the a few minutes.
...
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| Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:03 am |
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freemedic30
4 Of A Kind
Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 75
Location: Florida |
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Venom,
The "Trouble Shooter" is a short cue used for situations where you have to elevate a normal cue to much to make a normal shot. The butt of the cue is thicker, but the shafts are the same diameter. Most of the time you will only see them in someone's personal residence on private tables. Most Pool halls I have been to do not have them. I use it mainly because of the weight, and length. I find it easier to use than my normal cue. I tend to get just as much action out of the cue ball with it as I do with my formal cue.
BTW, Yow. Thanks for the advice on the hustler shot. I'ver successfully completed it a few times since then. Now that I have my own table at home, I'm working on it a lot more, and getting much much closer to making it consistantly. Still need some work on it. lol Thanks a lot though.
Oh one more thing. I recently got bumped to a 6 by APA standards. Not much I know, but it is a small sign of progress. I think I'll reach my goal if I keep playing and practicing like I do.
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| Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:19 am |
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emuskova
4 Of A Kind
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 156
Location: Chittagong-Bangladesh-south asia -Earth |
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nice to see u all after such long time .... i gat sum words to be explained from u guys ....dont laugh ...im a expert in ENGLISH just like our beloved PPOOLER 
OK .... there it goes ..>> brass ferrule - phenolic tip - metal tip ???
venom ... massecues r most of the times custom made .... dieckman goes like +1000 $ ....while schuler +500$ and others will cost like +200 .... better if u contact with a cue builder and tell ur configarations and make a custom one ....i think javier gomej <jakefats> makes such cue ..
btw .... anyone here ever tried TALISMAN TIP ?????
_________________
Wanna see a miracle ??? ............. ""Be the miracle"" |
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| Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:30 am |
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venom trickshots
Straight Flush
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 324
Location: Kingersheim--Alsace--France |
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Thanks guys for all this advices!!in fact I also didn't know the word for ferrule, so I spoke of tip but it's also my ferrule which is broken^^
Same thing for Sayginer I said he use metal tip, but i was thinking metal "brass" ferrule lol sorry!
For the masse cue I think finally I want to schearch the money for a dieckman cue, it seems me it's obligatory if i want to competing in 2 years in the world trickshot champ...
How many time it takes to make a Dieckman's Magic Wandzzz?
thnks to freemedi for your explanations , my english vocabulary is growing^^ and good luck for your goal!!
ppooler: maybe i go to try to save the rest of my masse shaft with your method^^: cut a small part and use a lathe...if I find one!!!
emuskova: brass ferrule - it does mean a kind of metal (contrary to the plastic used habitually)
phenolic tip - phenol it's a material which is used principally for the jump,its' better than a clasical tip ( i think it's also the material used for some balls but im NOT sure)
metal tip - hu I don't know what is it... what i meant was metal ferrule^^
and personnally i don't laugh of your english, I think im worst!
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| Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:29 am |
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chipper
ericyow.com Forums Moderator
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 192
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Finaly, I'm not the only one on this forum aving trouble with english. When I subscribe to yow's pool forum when it started, I was the only one having trouble reading the topics when words were more complicated. 
I also have a question. When you're competing, how many different cue do you use ? I read some post talking about different king of cue, different weight, different lenght... I'm all mixed up !  and I also have trouble with some vocabulary so that doesn't help either.
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| Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:43 am |
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trickshottim
Full House
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 59
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Before I got my Crown Cues masse cue, I used my regular cue for my masse shots. You can't do some of the fancier stuff, but you can definitely do the shots in the program. There are definitely some guys that compete that don't use or have a masse cue. It's possible to shoot the entire program with one cue (I did in my first tournament). Some players might have a different cue for a power/spin shot (like the power draw). Then a masse cue, and a jump cue for jump #5.
Phenolic is the same material the balls are made out of. These tips are usually used on jump and break cues. I have a Talisman Pro Med on one of my shafts. It plays well, but I haven't played with it enough to put out a comprehensive review.
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| Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:03 pm |
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venom trickshots
Straight Flush
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 324
Location: Kingersheim--Alsace--France |
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Like chipper ive also and other question...where it's possible to find a 14mm brass ferrule????i ve shearch on many website but Ive never seen a 14 mm brass ferule!If anyone know a good website^^thanks
btw I don't though when i created this topic that I can have so much responses, its great, i like 21ace forum
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| Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:40 pm |
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T-buzz
Straight Flush
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 336
Location: Genk - Flanders - Belgium |
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I have also broken the wood inside the ferrule multiple times... in fact in each video, 1 cue died
I was wondering if these cues could still be fixed?
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| Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:31 am |
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ppooler
Straight Flush
Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 287
Location: Czech republic |
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| brass ferrule |
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I've been at a work-room today, in order to made the brass ferrules and fix it on three different shafts :
I am looking forward to try it ...
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| Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:58 am |
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venom trickshots
Straight Flush
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 324
Location: Kingersheim--Alsace--France |
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ppooler my hero!!!! i ve just buy a not cheap fiberglass shaft and cut it to a 14 mm diam, i just wanna to fabricate the ferrule when i see your post!!!so please how long is the ferrule ??and how you put it ( do you glue it?)also on what ort of satft you put this brass ferrule?also i think i go to try an other sort of metalliq material for the ferrule,anyone have and idea f what to use?
Also im fabriacte pounds for my masse jump cue, anyone know what is the max i can put? the max which is sold in billard shops is 50g!i would to put 100g so i think i alos go to fabricate it!!
btw Yow! or anyone how weight is a dieckman masse cue?
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Because an End has a Start...
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| Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:21 am |
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ppooler
Straight Flush
Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 287
Location: Czech republic |
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I'd one high-quality shaft that I sacrifice to the purpose build a 'masse shaft'.
The other two are poor quality shafts, from an old cues. I still don't got the tips for it, which I order over the Internet, so I don't know whether it work, but I think it will , apparently, 'cause it seems like a very well done.
The width I made is 10 mm, because a longer ferrule could have the tend broke easily...
The 14 mm shaft I have just for the masse jump. For a regular masse isn't good to use too thick shaft , I think...
The most important thing is, indeed, to use the brass material (maybe a bronze) because are pretty meek (soft) just like the plastic ferrule but tenacious as well ...
But is it only my two cents opinion *(an idiomatic expression)
also in any case check this discussion
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=31934
out
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| Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:43 am |
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venom trickshots
Straight Flush
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 324
Location: Kingersheim--Alsace--France |
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thanks my friend, i go to made also a 10mm ferrule...today i ve received my two 14mm tips ( 4 weeks to have them!!!!)im curious to see the reaction because itsnot a ,masse cue so if its good i think i go to put it on my longoni...if the longoni socity would one day re-send me this shaft !!( hope they replace it because of the guarantee....)also i had thinking to made an aluminium ferrule, but if you think its not good i follow your mind!!
about the pounds, what do you think you will put in your "futur cues"?
btw ive buy a new cue, a "cuetop" great quality and a little cheap but the result is impressive!!im happy , my draw are easyly and the strokes are pretty good with it!!!just a great cue!!
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Because an End has a Start...
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| Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:41 pm |
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T-buzz
Straight Flush
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 336
Location: Genk - Flanders - Belgium |
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can you build me one as well?
i just can't seem to find a masse cue, unless i order it over the internet. but i like to try out first before i buy it so that's not gonna happen ...
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| Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:53 pm |
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venom trickshots
Straight Flush
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 324
Location: Kingersheim--Alsace--France |
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lol i think before to build one for anyone i must try that cue and see how it is but i sent you a mail if it's great^^
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Because an End has a Start...
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| Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:05 am |
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ppooler
Straight Flush
Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 287
Location: Czech republic |
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I have to say it. The brass ferrule is simply a great thing !. I practise a masse shots by those shafts, recently (past last three days) and I especially enjoy the Yo yo masse . By practising whole day, I've mastered it pretty well, and now I love the Yo-yo masse. Actually that shot isn't that hard because you don't have control the path the cue ball .It was quite exciting to make this shot three times in a row, but on the other side, the placement when the cue ball supposed to be, I've destroyed again
Anyway, I definetely recommend to fix a brass ferrule to a shaft, it worth.
and thanks Yow for that piece of knowledge, it's priceless.
and Venom, I think , Yow says that one of his masse cue is 24 Oz, i.e. 0,68 Kg
(I'm just added a piece of tin into the butt)
(*tin is a kind of heavy metal)
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| Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:04 am |
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venom trickshots
Straight Flush
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 324
Location: Kingersheim--Alsace--France |
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that seems me interestant!!!...im actually looking to find the brass material, but its not so easy... yes this is a priceless advice, also thanks for the precision about the wheight!!
_________________
Because an End has a Start...
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=08UolWMx9_M |
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| Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:16 am |
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venom trickshots
Straight Flush
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 324
Location: Kingersheim--Alsace--France |
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Pavel, ive seen your last masse jump video on your homepage, just one word: whaaaaaaa!!!damned the result of the brass ferrule is godly awesome, the player too^^
_________________
Because an End has a Start...
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=08UolWMx9_M |
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| Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:00 am |
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ppooler
Straight Flush
Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 287
Location: Czech republic |
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Yeah, I figure masse-jump out , finally !
That's why I get start spell this word with the hyphen
Anyway is it still difficult to me but the results are much better now.But the masse-jump reverse for instance, I definetely get down.
Mainly, because of a special masse-jump cue that I build by myself, (the butt is shorter) and the idea about brass ferrule is, I have to say it again : priceless
also I get started more using the grip as Yow does, meaning where the thumb is up, it's for jump action much better as I found out...
The tips Le pro are just wonderful, much better than whatever I ever tried...
I go crazy with the masse jump shot recently, even though I said myself to practice a set-up shots, but that idea is not very realizable to me, but someday, someday...
check out next short masse-jump clip,
http://www.trickshot.cz/massejumpclip.wmv
I've made a special prop, see pic
Is it top of a plastic bottle I practice with.
Good thing for achieve straight direction in each stroke...
here is the shot I took upon myself to learn properly
http://www.trickshot.cz/massejumpreverse.wmv
Last edited by ppooler on Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:59 am |
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T-buzz
Straight Flush
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 336
Location: Genk - Flanders - Belgium |
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Ppooler, when you say you made the cue yourself i guess you just took a shaft and a butt and made something out of it? or are you a real cue manufacturer? i would love to build my pwn masse cue, however i don't have any knowledge whatsoever on the materials being used or the correct way to apply them...
i always thought that when you use a carom (carambole) cue and took the butt of it (which is heavier) and make a joint that could connect a custom shaft, that would be ideal for me. but i don't know if this is really possible... my alternative is to buy one online, but then i don't get to test it so that's a problem right there
maybe there should be an equipment topic, where we can all share our knowledge and ways to improve the equipment? i'd love to see that
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| Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:46 pm |
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ppooler
Straight Flush
Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 287
Location: Czech republic |
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Yes, I am simply took a butt and cut off its end.That's all, and I am not a cue manufacturer of course.
I've been just inspired by the video that Yow put in here one month ago or so, and I notice there is one shot where Charles Darling using a fairly short cue for the wicked masse jump, so I've been thinking about that, if it is works. Lo and behold, it does!
I don't know if the whole thing is about the weight of the cue, though.In fact, the cue I've made isn't inordinately heavy, just made from a regular butt of a cheap cue, and the size of the whole cue is now a little bit longer than a jump cue.
For instance the shot Yow called 'chalk's width masse jump' is easy to shoot with only a shaft of cue, and to me - it's really easy to shoot, however you can achieve only a small curve this way. with the kinda short butt it's possible make a bigger curve...
And main key is probably the brass ferrule with the tip Le pro...
Is it quite interesting stuff and I didn't know that all the time...
Last edited by ppooler on Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:27 am |
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T-buzz
Straight Flush
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 336
Location: Genk - Flanders - Belgium |
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I used lepro on my house cues but it quickly broke off... ut they're cheap so it doesn't really matter then all the masses seen in my vids is done with an ordinary housecue with a lepro tip on it. for masse it's a nice thing to have, shame it doesn't last that long...
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| Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:56 am |
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delmari
Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 4
Location: Kansas |
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| newbie seeking advice |
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hey all. new to artistic shots. can pull off a few with regular cue. question is, do i convert spare cue or buy masse cue? seriously. do you guys see any benefits from either converting or buying a new cue? any advice here would be greatly appreciated.
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| Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:56 pm |
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abdiaz66
Full House
Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 51
Location: San Diego |
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Well i just purchased a crown masse cue from crowncues.biz they are making it as i speek very little if any masse cues are mass produced. Several pro's dont have masse cues what i recomend you do if your gonna masse get an extra shaft peferably size 13 or 14mm and put a soft tip on it that will alow you a good strong hit. That is what i have been doing but if you got the money get a masse cue here are some companys that make them: Ray shular, crown, Diekman, and chilton. But expect to pay anywere from 250.00 to 1200.00 hope this helps.
Remember masse cues dont do the work for you they are just shorter and hevyer it allows you to execute the shot with less effort.
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| Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:14 am |
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venom trickshots
Straight Flush
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 324
Location: Kingersheim--Alsace--France |
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Im happy , my personal masse cue is finally did!!I send you picture of the brass ferrule and also of the pounds Ive put, I am to 550g now with a special thing ive put on the cue!!!
jUST GREAT in 10 minute Ive made two terrifics masse jump, BUT ive always the same pb:
I broke the tip in one hour after i had glue it!!please help!!!what glue must i use? what tools must i use? because with this pb i can't use the real potential of this cue!!
_________________
Because an End has a Start...
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=08UolWMx9_M |
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| Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:48 am |
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T-buzz
Straight Flush
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 336
Location: Genk - Flanders - Belgium |
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