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Review - Teachers

 
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Review - Teachers

Is this a good idea?
Yes
81%
 81%  [ 9 ]
No
18%
 18%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 11

Author Message
Sreename
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Post Review - Teachers Reply with quote
Hi all,
We talked about this enough that I thought it deserved its own thread.
We are thinking of making a new review page. This time it wil be containing info about teachers from DVD's to Books. This will be to give the people who want to buy DVD's or Books to learn a quick view of wich person teaches them best. The only thing we need is the categories in wich we rate them.
I had an picture of something like this:
(using the star system)

Speed
Speech
Clearness
Overall rating
and then ofcourse the user remarks to tell everyone's personal opinion.

What do you guys think we should use a rating categories??

Let me know,
Sreen Cool
Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:55 am View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
BaZ
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Post Reply with quote
well make sure our very own ian is up there.

Apart from the funny accent he is a top class teacher

<><> Just a thought surly this would just be part of the DVD/Book/Video itself.

Just a quality of teaching grade: (A-E)

I would like a review section

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Shadow
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Post Reply with quote
We were thinking about a similiar idea a few days ago. We will probably start woring on it... Smile
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fattyonadiet
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Post Reply with quote
screenname........that was fast, wasn't it only yesterday we were talking about this!

great idea.....should be a success Razz
Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:33 am View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Sreename
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Post Reply with quote
BaZ wrote:
well make sure our very own ian is up there.

Apart from the funny accent he is a top class teacher

<><> Just a thought surly this would just be part of the DVD/Book/Video itself.

Just a quality of teaching grade: (A-E)

I would like a review section


Yeah Ian will be up there Very Happy
Quality is a good one, thx Smile

Sreen Cool
Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:40 am View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Eric
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Post Reply with quote
It looks good but I think the reviews should be for products, not necessarily individuals.

For example, we'll put Ian's dvd on there and I'm sure it will get high ratings. Now down the road maybe Ian comes out with another dvd and we put it up. Maybe it gets the same ratings, maybe not.

Also, some books/dvds have multiple authors so the product as a whole is ranked (taking into account the summary of the individual contributions).
Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:54 pm View user's profile Send private message
Eric
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Post Reply with quote
One more thing. It will be a lot of work to set this up so we need to make sure there is a lot of interest and a lot of folks ready to post reviews before we move forward.

The chip reviews have a lot of participation but we still don't have a whole lot of participation in our playing cards reviews. If we can't get reviews on pages like the Bicycle Review Page (I'm sure almost everyone has a deck) then I'm not so sure we can get reviews for other less common products.


Last edited by Eric on Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:57 pm View user's profile Send private message
jonjo
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Post Reply with quote
I'm not sure about that eric, I think people don't write Bicycle reviews because most people have them they know what they're like and there are some reviews for those who don't.

A magic Video/DVD/Effect can easily cost $50+. I'd be much more curious about the quality of such an Item and as a user and active member of the forum would be happy to post a review of any products i'd found helpful or almost as important very unhelpful. Particularly the begginer to intermediate level as I was desperate to know what to buy when i started and would have loved a good resource.

The forum is booming with loads of new members asking questions and praising the respectability and honesty of rviews and comments here.

I would suggest a fixed review format though so that the quality of the reviews is uniform. Maybe a quick review eg start ratings and short comments and for those who want to (niiro, drey and many others) a full in depth review.

We have some great members who contibute greatly to the site and the combined knowledge base is great. i fully offer my services and I know many others would no doubt to help you in any way possible to get this up and running.

Jonjo

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Homki890
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Post Reply with quote
Can I hear an AMEN?! Well said Jonjo.
Im in. If u all need help, u have my assitance.
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IanKendall
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Post Reply with quote
A few thoughts about teaching;

As some of you may know, I am fairly passionate about knowledge transfer. For the last 23-odd years I been teaching one thing or another, and I have taken courses on the theory of instruction. I have been a fencing coach (trained by the Scottish Fencing Union national coach), a flight instructor (trained by the FAA), a radio communications instructor (trained by the British Army) and I've taught science to primary (elementary) school kids for three years. And that's the official stuff.

I mention this not to boast, but to show my credentials in the hope that they might give some credence to what I have to say.

For me, teaching, or the ability to teach, is like a language. Once you know _how_ to teach a subject it becomes significantly easier to teach the next subject. This is where a common misconception causes so much trouble in the Magic Teaching Products (MTP) that we see so often these days. The idea is that if someone is good at doing something, then they would be good at explaining what they are doing. This is wrong on so many levels it's hard to know where to start.

An example; when I was studying for my Flight Instructor exam I had to learn to 'talk through' the manoevers as I did them. The first time I went up with my new instructor he asked me to talk him though a stall procedure. Now this is a fairly basic task which I had done a thousand times before, and could do on instinct. However, as soon as I had to verbalise what I was doing, everything went titsup. Although I was very highly skilled at the task at hand, I could not, at that stage, teach it effectively.

I have many MTPs where the subject, skilled though they may be, could not explain _anything_ with a degree of clarity. Also, because the current technology allows pretty much anyone to put out this stuff (and yes, my hand is up) the editorial process is bypassed as well. The result is poorly explained lessons full of abstractions, contradictions and confusion - which then leads to frustrated students. (Many years ago I took Doc Eason to task about his Bar Magic videos - probably a bit too harshly. Although I did not get too personal, and the tone was similar to this missive, I did say that many of the 'teachers' today could not spell 'lesson plan' much less make one...)

There are some stand out teachers, who do truely understand what to do. Ammar, aside from all his faults, is a good teacher. Daryl is also good. Mike Close knocks them both into a hat (if you get a chance, read Mike's book Workers 3, where he has an essay about teaching. Fantastic stuff).

And so to the purpose of this post. Eric has a point; next year I could put out another CD which is complete pants. And it would get the bad reviews it would deserve. But I would like to think that it would be well taught pants, because as I said at the start, I can speak Teacher. I've made four CDs now, along with the numerous free tutorials on my site. I think I've been able to explain things here to people in a clear and (sometimes) concise manner. I'm getting the hang of it...

So I think some kind of overview of the teachers would be a good thing, if only as a reference, and in conjunction with the normal product reviews. Also, we would have to understand that the comments would be entirely subjective, and those of us who would be put forward for critique are prepared for at least a couple of posts along the lines of 'your so gay'...

Take care, Ian
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Shadow
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Post Reply with quote
jonjo wrote:
I'm not sure about that eric, I think people don't write Bicycle reviews because most people have them they know what they're like and there are some reviews for those who don't.


Maybe in States. But most people from Europe have never heard about Bicycles. I think you would think twice about buying a deck of Bicycles if it costed 5.00$ or more for you.

And I'm not even talking about Asia.


Last edited by Shadow on Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:35 pm View user's profile Send private message AIM Address ICQ Number
user125
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Post Reply with quote
i agree with shadow there.. I"m a big fan of Bicycles, and i like them more than tallyhos some might beg to differ but then some never actually had a pair. I know a bunch of people who heard and seen Bicycle decks but never actually used them. I still know friends who buy Bees. (not that Bees are bad or anything.. i just like bikes.)
Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:53 pm View user's profile Send private message
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Post Reply with quote
jonjo wrote:
A magic Video/DVD/Effect can easily cost $50+. I'd be much more curious about the quality of such an Item


That is good to know. Which Teaching DVDs should we start with? Maybe we can use this thread to start deciding which Teaching DVD reviews should be done first.
Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:13 pm View user's profile Send private message
Sreename
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Post Reply with quote
Well,
I suggest

Ian's DVD
Born to Perform
Showoff with cards
xb

I can supply at least 2 review out of those... Very Happy
Maby other folks got more suggestions?

Sreen Cool
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rlk7
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Post Reply with quote
I agree with Eric: it's probably better to review products and then include discussion on the teacher/teaching method in the review.

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Post Reply with quote
ians just a show off

next he will be bringing out a dvd on how how o show off with cards Confused

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Homki890
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I suggest...

Stealing Pips--Oz Pearlman
Ninja 1-2--Brad Christian (hope i got his last name right)
GE--Brian Tudor
The System--Buck Twins
Paperclipped--Jay Sankey

I have some of these, and ive seen parts of the rest at friends house. I can offer good reviews on Paperclipped and Pips.

Happy Reviewing,
Homki890
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blaineboy3
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Post Reply with quote
wut if someone who is actually "important" stumbles upon these reviews and finds out that it is very wrong and does't like it at all and u know notifies someone and wut if that someone is actually a major supplier of this site and he decides to cut off his sponser stuff. If u get wut i mean. Laughing Cool

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Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:54 pm View user's profile Send private message
Eric
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Post Reply with quote
blaineboy3 wrote:
wut if someone who is actually "important" stumbles upon these reviews and finds out that it is very wrong and does't like it at all and u know notifies someone and wut if that someone is actually a major supplier of this site and he decides to cut off his sponser stuff. If u get wut i mean. Laughing Cool


I think I get your drift but when it comes to bias this site is a lot more neutral than other sites that sell the products directly.
Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:37 pm View user's profile Send private message
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Post Reply with quote
In terms reviews

I would suggest the big ones

DVDs Basically the entire E catalogue except maybe Kard Klub
Born to Perform
Stealing Pips
Encyclopedia Card Sleights
Showoff with Cards
xb
Cradle to Grave
CCC


Books
Royal Road
Card College

Effects
Stripper Decks
Invisible Decks
Rising Card Decks
Any instant downloads/complete effects


This is by no means a definitive list just a few of the big name that epople ask about most frequently and want to know what they're like!

Jonjo

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DeadPeopleAllOver
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Post Reply with quote
I would also be willing to write reviews on any material that I have.

Nobody has mentioned The Encyclopedia of Playing Card Flourishes. I would think that this would definitely have to be a book that should get reviewed here. People are always asking about it and are scared to buy it because it costs so much. A favorable review may steer them to buy it, or vice versa.

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Homki890
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Post Reply with quote
I want to add to Jonjo's list these effects/products:

Decks:
Svengali
Marked (any form)
Forcing
Black Tiger Gaff (Army of '56)
Mirage

Books:
Beyond Secrets--Jay Sankey
Amateur Magician's Handbook, The--Henry Hay
If anyone has more, write them down here i guess. Hope that review page gets up.

Homki890
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Post Reply with quote
Well, my post apparantly went missing during the server update, but I have written several reviews for products. The ones that I can recall off the top of my head are: Generation Extreme, The System, Encyclopedia of Playing Card Flourishes, Encyclopedia of Card Sleights vol 1 and 8, Sankey/Sanders Sessions, Showoff with Cards, Card College 1 and 2, Born To Perform, Stealing Pips, Watch Magic and Cradle to Grave. I will probably post them assuming I can find them so I won't have to rewrite them all.

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Post Reply with quote
deathorglory wrote:
Well, my post apparantly went missing during the server update, but I have written several reviews for products. The ones that I can recall off the top of my head are: Generation Extreme, The System, Encyclopedia of Playing Card Flourishes, Encyclopedia of Card Sleights vol 1 and 8, Sankey/Sanders Sessions, Showoff with Cards, Card College 1 and 2, Born To Perform, Stealing Pips, Watch Magic and Cradle to Grave. I will probably post them assuming I can find them so I won't have to rewrite them all.


We would love to get info on those products as well as some of the other products in this thread.

Now we need to agree on what categories to use.

Here is the original category list from Sreen:
Quote:

Speed
Speech
Clearness
Overall rating


Does that cover everything? Do we need to make any category changes?
Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:32 pm View user's profile Send private message
Sreename
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Post Reply with quote
well BaZ came up with a good one I think:
So waht we got now is:
Speed
Speech
Clearness
Overall rating
Quality of teaching

(maby difficulty of tricks tought is one also?)

Sreen Cool
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Eric
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Post Reply with quote
The only one I'm not sure of is speech. What if we're reviewing a book? What if someone in England reviews someone with a heavy British accent while someone in New York reviews someone with a heavy New York accent?

I'm thinking maybe we should use a "Communication" category instead of a "Speech" category.

What do you guys think?
Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:58 pm View user's profile Send private message
Sreename
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Post Reply with quote
Yeah thats even better.. That way you can judge way of writing too in case of a book Very Happy

Sreen Cool
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Eric
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Post Reply with quote
I think these should be setup like the chip reviews and the card reviews where there is no "Overall" category. Don't get me wrong, we still average all the categories and then sort them based on the average overall rating but it is not a category by itself (instead it is the average of all the other categories combined).

This sounds more confusing than it is. Check the chip ratings and card ratings to see what I mean.
Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:01 am View user's profile Send private message
Sreename
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Post Reply with quote
Yeah i get your point, that is maby an better idea.. we have enough categorys anyway Very Happy

Sreen Cool
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Shadow
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Post Reply with quote
The difficulty of the tricks is a good idea too.
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Sreename
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Post Reply with quote
So we all agree on the following then:

Speed
Quality of communication
Clearness
Difficulty of tricks tought
Quality of teaching

??

Sreen Cool
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Post Giobbi Reply with quote
Very interesting indeed.

I am also curious if there is still room for Roberto Giobbi's "Card College"
series. In my opinion, these books are one of the best out there. And it would be a shame if people only buy dvd's, because the knowledge in books is often awesome.

Great idea!

Dvds I have (seen).

Daryls Encyclopedia of Card Sleights. : This 8 dvd set is also worth a review I'd say. Very clear teaching.

Michael Ammars: Easy to Master Card Miracles. I would say the best dvd set for learning good quality tricks.

Daryl : Ambitious Card routine.

Daryl does the Full Monte (Three card monte) Best teaching vid out there on the subject Wink

Sal Piacente: Three Card Monte. One of the worst on the subject Confused

Vernon Revelations

Bill Malone: On the Loose

Weapons of the Card Shark

The Cheat (Richard Turner)

Allan Ackerman Card Control Series

Richard Osterlind: Mind Mysteries

Lennart Green: Green Magic.

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endeffects
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Post Reply with quote
Looks like everyone is well on there way. *looks around for reviews* I'm not looking at any material!

Naw I'm just joking. I wouldnt mind writing a review up for something like the Torn DVD or a singular effect DVD. I've ordered Torn by Daniel Garcia.

I'm sure that there are others here who can put up a better review for a book like EOPCF or the DVD The System because I have not been around them as long as others here have.

Maybe If we're still putting up card reviews I can make a review about the Black Viper Siver Fan Back cards and/or the New Bicycle Ghost deck or the gimmick Ghost invis deck when they're released.

just some ideas so that I can contribute to the site.

(Number 100 post, for good luck)

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Shadow
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Post Reply with quote
Endeffects, now you can write your reviews for the cards listed here: http://www.21ace.com/Playing-Cards.php. We might add the Vipers soon. I'm not so sure if we are going to add the Ghost Deck yet.
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Post review Reply with quote
Just done writing a review for Fernando Keops' cheating at cards dvd.
Any idea where I can send it to? I typed it in Word. It's about 6 pages.


I handle this system:




My overall score: 9 (out of 10)



Artist: Fernando Keops
Title: Cheating at Cards (volume 1)
Set: 1-3
Language: English
Length: 2 hours 3 minutes.
Explanation: Yes
Over the shoulder views: No
Close ups: Yes
Release: july 2005
Publisher: L&L Publishing

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Post Reply with quote
It's a great review, you can send it to Eric / Shadow.. Or I can do it for you Wink

Sreen Cool
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endeffects
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Shadow wrote:
Endeffects, now you can write your reviews for the cards listed here: http://www.21ace.com/Playing-Cards.php. We might add the Vipers soon. I'm not so sure if we are going to add the Ghost Deck yet.



Alrighty then, Smile


Looking forward to the Review Ace.

I see this whole review thing could become very big.

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Ok the first review is inm thanks to Tom Ace. Please note that we will not yet start the review site this instant moment. We have disscused this and several people agree it is better to wait a bit and do this thing right from the begining then to haste everything and having to correct and adjust it the whole way. So be patient dear forum members, we ARE working on it Very Happy In the mean time keep sending the reviews for DVD / Books / VHS to Eric so we can sort them out. remeber the ratings we use are:
Speed
Quality of communication
Clearness
Difficulty of tricks tought
Quality of teaching
As soon as we have a couple of reviews we WILL get this thing kicking and as Endeffects said, it might become very big with the help of you all!!

Sreen Cool
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I have added an explanation on what each category means to me. Please help us get this finalized. We want to put up Tom Ace's review soon but only after there is some agreement on the categories.

Speed - Is the material covered at the right speed?
Communication Quality - speech/writing is friendly & easy to understand.
Clarity - pics/diagrams/vids/concepts are clear.
Difficulty of tricks tought - those that teach hard tricks get a high rating
Teaching Quality - it is one thing to perform a trick but another to teach
Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:28 am View user's profile Send private message
Sreename
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Post Reply with quote
Yeah I agree, that was exactly what I was thinking.
Everyone who writes a review please use this rating system Very Happy

Sreen Cool
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Shadow
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Maybe we should also add the quantity factor. It's really good if you have 1 really good explained but if you have 10 explained the same way it's even better Smile What do you think?
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Yeah thats maby a good idea you got there Very Happy
Ok let add that too then? It keeps the review as wide and informative as possible...

Sreen Cool
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Eric
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Jonjo just sent me a great review that had the following categories:
Speed - Is the material covered at the right speed?
Communication Quality - speech/writing is friendly & easy to understand.
Clarity/Appearance - pics/diagrams/vids/concepts are clear.
Difficulty of tricks tought - those that teach hard tricks get a high rating
Teaching Quality - it is one thing to perform a trick but another to teach
Quantity - How much material is there?
Value/Price - Is this product a good deal compared to similar products?

I think we might have too many categories but maybe not. We need to keep the following for sure (to be consistent w/ our chip/card review sections):
Value/Price - Is this product a good deal compared to similar products?
Clarity/Appearance - pics/diagrams/vids/concepts are clear and cool looking.
At least one Quality Category

The other categories are all valuable as well but we don't want this to become so overwhelming that people are scared to do reviews because of all the categories. Maybe it is ok keep 7 different categories, what does everyone think?
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Yeah on the one hand, there are maby to many, but on the other hand. I think waht we try to accomplish with this review section is to infrom people on how good a DVD / Book is, If it is on there level of skill and wether they should get it or not. And for that you need as much info as possible. So I think if we have to give in at the category's these things should be made clear in the ser comments. At least that my opinion.
But I agree Eric, there are a bit many Very Happy

Sreen Cool
Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:17 pm View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Eric
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Joined: 01 Dec 2003
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Location: California

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I think speed is covered under teaching quality and communication. Maybe we can do without speed. What do you say?
Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:24 pm View user's profile Send private message
Sreename
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Yeah I agree Smile
Clarity maby under Quality of Teaching?

Sreen Cool
Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:47 pm View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
jonjo
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Eric

that review took me about 15-20 mins. It really wasn't difficult.
I think short paragraph in 6 or seven catagories is better than only having 1 or 2 with huge blocks of text that are hard to read.

I suggest that anyone who wants to write review should do by say the end of next week 12th august 2005 and then we can post sample reviews somewhere and decide as a group which bits we like/dislkike. I think one of the most improtant things is to have a uniform format and a review that is not too long or intimidating. Mine was easily less than a screen and I think had enough info to answer most of the questions people would be concerned about having read the bumf from whatever site is marketing it.

I think the trial review deadline would be good so that this doens't just get discussed forever without any action.

I think the categories are great as they stand with

Speed - Is the material covered at the right speed?
Communication Quality - speech/writing is friendly & easy to understand.
Clarity/Appearance - pics/diagrams/vids/concepts are clear.
Difficulty of tricks tought - those that teach hard tricks get a high rating
Teaching Quality - it is one thing to perform a trick but another to teach
Quantity - How much material is there?
Value/Price - Is this product a good deal compared to similar products?

This covers most of the bases and doesn't require hugely long paragraphs.

if you give it a go reviews aren't that hard. Just be honest!

Jonjo

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Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:39 pm View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Sreename
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Well as posted in the off-topic section, Im going to be out for a week (im leaving in a min) SO ill be back, yes you guessed it the 12th. But after that I can give my review of Born To Perform and Showoff with Cards.

Sreen Cool
Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:35 pm View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Eric
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Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Posts: 2487
Location: California

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Now that most votes have said this is a good idea (9 yes versus 2 no) we are moving forward and this poll is being locked.

We have received some reviews and we are working on getting them in the agreed upon format. Some of the reviews are just about ready, look for an announcement soon in a separate thread. Smile
Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:40 pm View user's profile Send private message
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