| Is this a good idea? |
| Yes |
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81% |
[ 9 ] |
| No |
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18% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 11 |
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Sreename
Royal Flush
Joined: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 1642
Location: Netherlands |
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 Review - Teachers |
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Hi all,
We talked about this enough that I thought it deserved its own thread.
We are thinking of making a new review page. This time it wil be containing info about teachers from DVD's to Books. This will be to give the people who want to buy DVD's or Books to learn a quick view of wich person teaches them best. The only thing we need is the categories in wich we rate them.
I had an picture of something like this:
(using the star system)
Speed
Speech
Clearness
Overall rating
and then ofcourse the user remarks to tell everyone's personal opinion.
What do you guys think we should use a rating categories??
Let me know,
Sreen 
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| Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:55 am |
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BaZ
Flourish Contest III Desc Champ
Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 929
Location: Outside the box |
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well make sure our very own ian is up there.
Apart from the funny accent he is a top class teacher
<><> Just a thought surly this would just be part of the DVD/Book/Video itself.
Just a quality of teaching grade: (A-E)
I would like a review section
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| Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:41 am |
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Shadow
Forum Administrator
Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 1606
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We were thinking about a similiar idea a few days ago. We will probably start woring on it... 
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| Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:03 am |
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fattyonadiet
Royal Flush
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 1316
Location: Melbourne, Australia |
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screenname........that was fast, wasn't it only yesterday we were talking about this!
great idea.....should be a success 
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| Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:33 am |
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Sreename
Royal Flush
Joined: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 1642
Location: Netherlands |
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well make sure our very own ian is up there.
Apart from the funny accent he is a top class teacher
<><> Just a thought surly this would just be part of the DVD/Book/Video itself.
Just a quality of teaching grade: (A-E)
I would like a review section |
Yeah Ian will be up there 
Quality is a good one, thx
Sreen
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| Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:40 am |
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Eric
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Posts: 2486
Location: California |
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It looks good but I think the reviews should be for products, not necessarily individuals.
For example, we'll put Ian's dvd on there and I'm sure it will get high ratings. Now down the road maybe Ian comes out with another dvd and we put it up. Maybe it gets the same ratings, maybe not.
Also, some books/dvds have multiple authors so the product as a whole is ranked (taking into account the summary of the individual contributions).
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| Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:54 pm |
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Eric
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Posts: 2486
Location: California |
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One more thing. It will be a lot of work to set this up so we need to make sure there is a lot of interest and a lot of folks ready to post reviews before we move forward.
The chip reviews have a lot of participation but we still don't have a whole lot of participation in our playing cards reviews. If we can't get reviews on pages like the Bicycle Review Page (I'm sure almost everyone has a deck) then I'm not so sure we can get reviews for other less common products.
Last edited by Eric on Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:57 pm |
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jonjo
Straight Flush
Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 679
Location: London UK |
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I'm not sure about that eric, I think people don't write Bicycle reviews because most people have them they know what they're like and there are some reviews for those who don't.
A magic Video/DVD/Effect can easily cost $50+. I'd be much more curious about the quality of such an Item and as a user and active member of the forum would be happy to post a review of any products i'd found helpful or almost as important very unhelpful. Particularly the begginer to intermediate level as I was desperate to know what to buy when i started and would have loved a good resource.
The forum is booming with loads of new members asking questions and praising the respectability and honesty of rviews and comments here.
I would suggest a fixed review format though so that the quality of the reviews is uniform. Maybe a quick review eg start ratings and short comments and for those who want to (niiro, drey and many others) a full in depth review.
We have some great members who contibute greatly to the site and the combined knowledge base is great. i fully offer my services and I know many others would no doubt to help you in any way possible to get this up and running.
Jonjo
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| Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:06 pm |
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Homki890
4 Of A Kind
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 218
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Can I hear an AMEN?! Well said Jonjo.
Im in. If u all need help, u have my assitance.
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| Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm |
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IanKendall
Chip Tricks Contest I Champ
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 384
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland |
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A few thoughts about teaching;
As some of you may know, I am fairly passionate about knowledge transfer. For the last 23-odd years I been teaching one thing or another, and I have taken courses on the theory of instruction. I have been a fencing coach (trained by the Scottish Fencing Union national coach), a flight instructor (trained by the FAA), a radio communications instructor (trained by the British Army) and I've taught science to primary (elementary) school kids for three years. And that's the official stuff.
I mention this not to boast, but to show my credentials in the hope that they might give some credence to what I have to say.
For me, teaching, or the ability to teach, is like a language. Once you know _how_ to teach a subject it becomes significantly easier to teach the next subject. This is where a common misconception causes so much trouble in the Magic Teaching Products (MTP) that we see so often these days. The idea is that if someone is good at doing something, then they would be good at explaining what they are doing. This is wrong on so many levels it's hard to know where to start.
An example; when I was studying for my Flight Instructor exam I had to learn to 'talk through' the manoevers as I did them. The first time I went up with my new instructor he asked me to talk him though a stall procedure. Now this is a fairly basic task which I had done a thousand times before, and could do on instinct. However, as soon as I had to verbalise what I was doing, everything went titsup. Although I was very highly skilled at the task at hand, I could not, at that stage, teach it effectively.
I have many MTPs where the subject, skilled though they may be, could not explain _anything_ with a degree of clarity. Also, because the current technology allows pretty much anyone to put out this stuff (and yes, my hand is up) the editorial process is bypassed as well. The result is poorly explained lessons full of abstractions, contradictions and confusion - which then leads to frustrated students. (Many years ago I took Doc Eason to task about his Bar Magic videos - probably a bit too harshly. Although I did not get too personal, and the tone was similar to this missive, I did say that many of the 'teachers' today could not spell 'lesson plan' much less make one...)
There are some stand out teachers, who do truely understand what to do. Ammar, aside from all his faults, is a good teacher. Daryl is also good. Mike Close knocks them both into a hat (if you get a chance, read Mike's book Workers 3, where he has an essay about teaching. Fantastic stuff).
And so to the purpose of this post. Eric has a point; next year I could put out another CD which is complete pants. And it would get the bad reviews it would deserve. But I would like to think that it would be well taught pants, because as I said at the start, I can speak Teacher. I've made four CDs now, along with the numerous free tutorials on my site. I think I've been able to explain things here to people in a clear and (sometimes) concise manner. I'm getting the hang of it...
So I think some kind of overview of the teachers would be a good thing, if only as a reference, and in conjunction with the normal product reviews. Also, we would have to understand that the comments would be entirely subjective, and those of us who would be put forward for critique are prepared for at least a couple of posts along the lines of 'your so gay'...
Take care, Ian
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| Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:34 pm |
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Shadow
Forum Administrator
Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 1606
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I'm not sure about that eric, I think people don't write Bicycle reviews because most people have them they know what they're like and there are some reviews for those who don't. |
Maybe in States. But most people from Europe have never heard about Bicycles. I think you would think twice about buying a deck of Bicycles if it costed 5.00$ or more for you.
And I'm not even talking about Asia.
Last edited by Shadow on Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:35 pm |
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user125
4 Of A Kind
Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 159
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i agree with shadow there.. I"m a big fan of Bicycles, and i like them more than tallyhos some might beg to differ but then some never actually had a pair. I know a bunch of people who heard and seen Bicycle decks but never actually used them. I still know friends who buy Bees. (not that Bees are bad or anything.. i just like bikes.)
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| Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:53 pm |
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Eric
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Posts: 2486
Location: California |
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A magic Video/DVD/Effect can easily cost $50+. I'd be much more curious about the quality of such an Item |
That is good to know. Which Teaching DVDs should we start with? Maybe we can use this thread to start deciding which Teaching DVD reviews should be done first.
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| Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:13 pm |
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Sreename
Royal Flush
Joined: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 1642
Location: Netherlands |
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Well,
I suggest
Ian's DVD
Born to Perform
Showoff with cards
xb
I can supply at least 2 review out of those...
Maby other folks got more suggestions?
Sreen
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| Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:39 pm |
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rlk7
Card Tricks Contests I,II Champ
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 731
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I agree with Eric: it's probably better to review products and then include discussion on the teacher/teaching method in the review.
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And all the lights that lead us there are blinding
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| Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:08 pm |
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BaZ
Flourish Contest III Desc Champ
Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 929
Location: Outside the box |
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ians just a show off
next he will be bringing out a dvd on how how o show off with cards 
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| Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:39 pm |
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Homki890
4 Of A Kind
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 218
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I suggest...
Stealing Pips--Oz Pearlman
Ninja 1-2--Brad Christian (hope i got his last name right)
GE--Brian Tudor
The System--Buck Twins
Paperclipped--Jay Sankey
I have some of these, and ive seen parts of the rest at friends house. I can offer good reviews on Paperclipped and Pips.
Happy Reviewing,
Homki890
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| Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:20 pm |
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blaineboy3
3 Of A Kind
Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 26
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wut if someone who is actually "important" stumbles upon these reviews and finds out that it is very wrong and does't like it at all and u know notifies someone and wut if that someone is actually a major supplier of this site and he decides to cut off his sponser stuff. If u get wut i mean. 
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| Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:54 pm |
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Eric
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Posts: 2486
Location: California |
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wut if someone who is actually "important" stumbles upon these reviews and finds out that it is very wrong and does't like it at all and u know notifies someone and wut if that someone is actually a major supplier of this site and he decides to cut off his sponser stuff. If u get wut i mean. |
I think I get your drift but when it comes to bias this site is a lot more neutral than other sites that sell the products directly.
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| Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:37 pm |
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jonjo
Straight Flush
Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 679
Location: London UK |
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In terms reviews
I would suggest the big ones
DVDs Basically the entire E catalogue except maybe Kard Klub
Born to Perform
Stealing Pips
Encyclopedia Card Sleights
Showoff with Cards
xb
Cradle to Grave
CCC
Books
Royal Road
Card College
Effects
Stripper Decks
Invisible Decks
Rising Card Decks
Any instant downloads/complete effects
This is by no means a definitive list just a few of the big name that epople ask about most frequently and want to know what they're like!
Jonjo
_________________
A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history - with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila.
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| Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:57 am |
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DeadPeopleAllOver
Card Tricks Contest IX Champ
Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 1291
Location: Columbia, South Carolina |
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I would also be willing to write reviews on any material that I have.
Nobody has mentioned The Encyclopedia of Playing Card Flourishes. I would think that this would definitely have to be a book that should get reviewed here. People are always asking about it and are scared to buy it because it costs so much. A favorable review may steer them to buy it, or vice versa.
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| Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:50 am |
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Homki890
4 Of A Kind
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 218
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I want to add to Jonjo's list these effects/products:
Decks:
Svengali
Marked (any form)
Forcing
Black Tiger Gaff (Army of '56)
Mirage
Books:
Beyond Secrets--Jay Sankey
Amateur Magician's Handbook, The--Henry Hay
If anyone has more, write them down here i guess. Hope that review page gets up.
Homki890
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| Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:02 pm |
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deathorglory
Straight Flush
Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 370
Location: CSU |
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Well, my post apparantly went missing during the server update, but I have written several reviews for products. The ones that I can recall off the top of my head are: Generation Extreme, The System, Encyclopedia of Playing Card Flourishes, Encyclopedia of Card Sleights vol 1 and 8, Sankey/Sanders Sessions, Showoff with Cards, Card College 1 and 2, Born To Perform, Stealing Pips, Watch Magic and Cradle to Grave. I will probably post them assuming I can find them so I won't have to rewrite them all.
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| Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:03 pm |
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Eric
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Posts: 2486
Location: California |
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Well, my post apparantly went missing during the server update, but I have written several reviews for products. The ones that I can recall off the top of my head are: Generation Extreme, The System, Encyclopedia of Playing Card Flourishes, Encyclopedia of Card Sleights vol 1 and 8, Sankey/Sanders Sessions, Showoff with Cards, Card College 1 and 2, Born To Perform, Stealing Pips, Watch Magic and Cradle to Grave. I will probably post them assuming I can find them so I won't have to rewrite them all. |
We would love to get info on those products as well as some of the other products in this thread.
Now we need to agree on what categories to use.
Here is the original category list from Sreen:
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Speed
Speech
Clearness
Overall rating
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Does that cover everything? Do we need to make any category changes?
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| Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:32 pm |
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Sreename
Royal Flush
Joined: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 1642
Location: Netherlands |
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well BaZ came up with a good one I think:
So waht we got now is:
Speed
Speech
Clearness
Overall rating
Quality of teaching
(maby difficulty of tricks tought is one also?)
Sreen
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| Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:53 pm |
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Eric
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Posts: 2486
Location: California |
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The only one I'm not sure of is speech. What if we're reviewing a book? What if someone in England reviews someone with a heavy British accent while someone in New York reviews someone with a heavy New York accent?
I'm thinking maybe we should use a "Communication" category instead of a "Speech" category.
What do you guys think?
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| Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:58 pm |
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Sreename
Royal Flush
Joined: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 1642
Location: Netherlands |
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Yeah thats even better.. That way you can judge way of writing too in case of a book
Sreen
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| Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:59 pm |
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Eric
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Posts: 2486
Location: California |
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I think these should be setup like the chip reviews and the card reviews where there is no "Overall" category. Don't get me wrong, we still average all the categories and then sort them based on the average overall rating but it is not a category by itself (instead it is the average of all the other categories combined).
This sounds more confusing than it is. Check the chip ratings and card ratings to see what I mean.
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| Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:01 am |
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Sreename
Royal Flush
Joined: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 1642
Location: Netherlands |
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Yeah i get your point, that is maby an better idea.. we have enough categorys anyway
Sreen
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| Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:24 am |
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Shadow
Forum Administrator
Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 1606
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The difficulty of the tricks is a good idea too.
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| Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:49 am |
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Sreename
Royal Flush
Joined: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 1642
Location: Netherlands |
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So we all agree on the following then:
Speed
Quality of communication
Clearness
Difficulty of tricks tought
Quality of teaching
??
Sreen
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| Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:07 am |
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Tom Ace
4 Of A Kind
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 209
Location: Maastricht, the Netherlands |
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Very interesting indeed.
I am also curious if there is still room for Roberto Giobbi's "Card College"
series. In my opinion, these books are one of the best out there. And it would be a shame if people only buy dvd's, because the knowledge in books is often awesome.
Great idea!
Dvds I have (seen).
Daryls Encyclopedia of Card Sleights. : This 8 dvd set is also worth a review I'd say. Very clear teaching.
Michael Ammars: Easy to Master Card Miracles. I would say the best dvd set for learning good quality tricks.
Daryl : Ambitious Card routine.
Daryl does the Full Monte (Three card monte) Best teaching vid out there on the subject 
Sal Piacente: Three Card Monte. One of the worst on the subject
Vernon Revelations
Bill Malone: On the Loose
Weapons of the Card Shark
The Cheat (Richard Turner)
Allan Ackerman Card Control Series
Richard Osterlind: Mind Mysteries
Lennart Green: Green Magic.
_________________
"Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today"
-James Dean- |
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| Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:43 am |
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endeffects
4 Of A Kind
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 154
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Looks like everyone is well on there way. *looks around for reviews* I'm not looking at any material!
Naw I'm just joking. I wouldnt mind writing a review up for something like the Torn DVD or a singular effect DVD. I've ordered Torn by Daniel Garcia.
I'm sure that there are others here who can put up a better review for a book like EOPCF or the DVD The System because I have not been around them as long as others here have.
Maybe If we're still putting up card reviews I can make a review about the Black Viper Siver Fan Back cards and/or the New Bicycle Ghost deck or the gimmick Ghost invis deck when they're released.
just some ideas so that I can contribute to the site.
(Number 100 post, for good luck)
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| Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:27 am |
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Shadow
Forum Administrator
Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 1606
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| Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:36 am |
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Tom Ace
4 Of A Kind
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 209
Location: Maastricht, the Netherlands |
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Just done writing a review for Fernando Keops' cheating at cards dvd.
Any idea where I can send it to? I typed it in Word. It's about 6 pages.
I handle this system:
My overall score: 9 (out of 10)
Artist: Fernando Keops
Title: Cheating at Cards (volume 1)
Set: 1-3
Language: English
Length: 2 hours 3 minutes.
Explanation: Yes
Over the shoulder views: No
Close ups: Yes
Release: july 2005
Publisher: L&L Publishing
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| Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:34 am |
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Sreename
Royal Flush
Joined: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 1642
Location: Netherlands |
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It's a great review, you can send it to Eric / Shadow.. Or I can do it for you
Sreen
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| Thu Aug |
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