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200 Motels
Straight Flush
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 574
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 The ol' min raise UTG with AA |
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Generally speaking, what does everyone think of this play?
In just about any other situation, a min raise is a horrible play unless you're making a value bet on the river. The reason is, it barely effects the pot odds and usually makes other drawing hands get great odds. Almost always, on the flop, if someone is betting the minimum or only 1/4 of the pot, they're drawing and can almost always be raised out of the pot.
I think raising preflop UTG with AA is very effective in several ways if used in moderation.
Someone who makes a min raise is usually called by a couple people in a full game. Players who know that each player is weak, will usually make a large raise to try n take down the pot with any reasonable hand like 99 and up. AQo and up. Their raise will get the rest of the players out of the pot.
Even if you get alot of callers and see the flop, AA will usually still be the best hand.
If you win the hand and showdown, your table image can be effected. Any other min raises UTG can signify a strong hand.
The reason I mentioned this, is a lady did it in a $10 SnG on Stars, and took down a nice pot. It was the very last hand I put her on.
In a $5 SnG I made this play. I was called by the next 3 players, seat 5 folds, seat 6 makes a massive raise for most of his chips, everyone folds to me. I re-raise for my last bit of chips and seat six calls. He shows 77 to my AA and he flops a set. The guy then goes to say I shouldn't have min raised AA UTG and that he woulda folded to a normal raise. I think I just got very unlucky and played fine.
I played another $5 SnG where someone did the same and took down a very large pot. Everyone folded to his min raises preflop after that, which was interesting to see.
Would limping be a better idea, or would a normal raise be better UTG?
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| Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:12 pm |
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Scooter77
Straight Flush
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 490
Location: Dallas, Texas |
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I think that's an excellent play...btw what's your pokerstars name?
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"I was supposed to go broke on that hand... but they forgot one thing.... I CAN DODGE BULLETS BABY!" -Phil Hellmuth
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| Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:46 pm |
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chip magnet
Straight Flush
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 357
Location: Western, New York |
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| Re: The ol' min raise UTG with AA |
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Would limping be a better idea, or would a normal raise be better UTG? |
Actually I really like your play, and my last poker game I played with my friends, I had a similar scenrio. I was on the button, 3 handed and had aces, I raised it 2.5 the big blind, which is a kinda weak bet; yet a reasonable raise, and the really aggressive player to the left moved all in (we were both about 15x the big blind) with pocket 3s. I immediantly call only to see my hopes and dreams crushed by the 3. But after words my friends still said that was a fantastic play, and that he thought any player would have LIMPED with aces.
Thats why I think raising is better.
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Last edited by chip magnet on Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:55 pm |
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DeadPeopleAllOver
Card Tricks Contest IX Champ
Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 1291
Location: Columbia, South Carolina |
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| Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:14 am |
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200 Motels
Straight Flush
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 574
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think that's an excellent play...btw what's your pokerstars name? |
200 Motels
This move wouldn't work if you were short stacked (around 10BBs or M of 5). If I saw a short stack min raise anywhere, in a tourney, with out pushing his stack in, I'd think he had a great hand.
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"They should put a warning on these things, like cigarettes." |
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| Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:00 am |
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Chip and a Chair
Straight Flush
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Posts: 287
Location: Ohio |
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I have a rule I follow every time I get pocket aces, or any hand rather, limping is forbidden! If you limp with aces, you only have a pair pre-flop, post-flop, alot of hands can beat it if the flop is right. By limping UTG or in EP (early position) you're allowing others to limp in with hands that, when the right board hits, can crack aces in the blink of an eye. I usually come in for 3x the BB, the same way I would play a 7-2 off-suit just to keep them guessing. That way, your opponents have to put more money in to see a flop, and if the raise is big enough, it eliminates the possibility of ppl calling with hands like 45 suited. Even if you raise only double the BB, you will still get alot of action. When you get a big hand, you generally want to get heads up so a standard raise would be best.
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| Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:42 pm |
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200 Motels
Straight Flush
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 574
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When you get a big hand, you generally want to get heads up so a standard raise would be best. |
This is true, but usually someone limping will get raised, and that would be the time to re-raise to get others out of the hand. On the other hand, if you do just get callers, and no one raises your tiny bet, your aces have a good chance of falling victim to someone flopping a better hand. Still, aces will be the best hand, most of the time after the flop, if I'm not mistaken. However, I could be easily. 
This move does have it's risks, and generally works best at an aggressive table so you will get raised.
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| Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:54 am |
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Chip and a Chair
Straight Flush
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Posts: 287
Location: Ohio |
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When you get a big hand, you generally want to get heads up so a standard raise would be best. |
This is true, but usually someone limping will get raised, and that would be the time to re-raise to get others out of the hand. On the other hand, if you do just get callers, and no one raises your tiny bet, your aces have a good chance of falling victim to someone flopping a better hand. Still, aces will be the best hand, most of the time after the flop, if I'm not mistaken. However, I could be easily.
This move does have it's risks, and generally works best at an aggressive table so you will get raised. |
Sometimes a limp will get raised, but to me, it really depends on what kind of table you're sitting at. If you're at a table full of limpers it's best to raise especially if there has been a couple limps before you. If you're at a tight conservative table, maybe you want to limp hoping you get no worse than 3 handed or that someone does raise it. But most of the time, especially online, raising is right in any spot.
To be honest, there is no surefire way to prevent aces from being cracked, in fact, sometimes, Aces can be the hand that knocks you out of a big tournament. I think it is because alot of beginners misunderstand the value of aces. Pre-flop, it is the nuts, post-flop, it can be beat. And you cannot be a winning player unless you have the discipline to lay down aces and kings at the right times.
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"In life you can make your own decisions or let other people make those decisions for you. Being Above The Influence is about staying true to yourself, and not letting people pressure you into being less than you. So be yourself. Or be something less. It's your call." |
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| Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:19 pm |
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200 Motels
Straight Flush
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 574
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Yes, it defenitley depends on type of players at the table. If there are more that one decent player there, they'll usually go over the top of a min raise if they have anything. There is a lot of limping online so it can backfire easily.
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"They should put a warning on these things, like cigarettes." |
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| Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:06 am |
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cardcontroller
Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Stars 16's & 27's |
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Um...play more games.
Min raising UTG w/ AA is really bad. You'll be getting almost no value for what your hand is worth.
In a low stakes game it can go both ways. All the retards can just call you down with pocket 2's or K8s and flop sets. If they wanna get lucky with K8s, make them pay for it.
Basically, you don't need to min raise in low stakes or play tricky or anything, almost ever. They pay you off regardless.
Calling UTG is even worse, especially in a low stakes game.
Also about getting a good 'image' by min raising UTG w/ aces, and showing...at low stakes you don't need a good image. lol
EDIT: Along with the image thing, here this: If I raise anything else normally, but only min bet AA, what does that tell you next time I min bet or raise normally? Duh! Raise the same amount everytime....then again, this is just like everything else in poker....it depends!  Good Luck!
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| Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:26 pm |
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200 Motels
Straight Flush
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 574
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In a cash game I wouldn't make this play, but in a tourney, when the stacks vary and in low limits when people are anxious to put all their chips in, I think it can be decent play. But yea, it always depends on the situation.
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If I raise anything else normally, but only min bet AA, what does that tell you next time I min bet or raise normally? Duh! |
I obviously wouldn't repeat this play with the same players. Like I'd get AA UTG in the same SnG anyway. The point is that you could min-raise UTG with rags later on and someone may put you on a decent hand if they saw you show it down earlier.
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"They should put a warning on these things, like cigarettes." |
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| Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:11 am |
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cardcontroller
Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
Posts: 517
Location: Stars 16's & 27's |
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The point is that you could min-raise UTG with rags later on and someone may put you on a decent hand if they saw you show it down earlier. |
The point is that in low stakes games you don't need to do tricky moves like this. Most people arent paying attention, and they'll pay you off regardless.
You're way better off playing super str8 forward at the $16's 20 tabling making $30/hr.
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| Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:32 pm |
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200 Motels
Straight Flush
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 574
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Yea the tourney competition is pretty lame at the low levels. I used to do well on Party's $22 SnGs.
I may try a more serious tourney level. It's hard to get plug that much into a tourney when you're first trying to scratch out a bankroll.
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"They should put a warning on these things, like cigarettes." |
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| Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:33 am |
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