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Drey
Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Posts: 699
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 Scarne Expose |
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I ordered the only video of John Scarne aside from the scenes in "the sting" that I could find available. It comes in the form of a short DVD, the quality is low because it's old footage, the recording is maybe 15 minutes long and many people might feel the value is low, personally I do not.
All I can say is WOW. I found watching the demonstrations was quite interesting, generally they include one or two performances, followed by a slow motion expose of what occurred, though this isn't try for everything. He started with a baffling cups and balls routine that, even when you think you know the moves, looked good. He then demonstrates a push-through shuffle. Now naturally, a push-through shuffle is very common and has since undergone tremendous refinement, but I was deeply appreciative of watching him perform it (there are two performances at speed and one slow motion expose). What interested me about it was his technique is quite different than the typical refined techniques you see today, mostly as outlined in "The Riffle Shuffle Systems". The technique is in a sense quite rough, in that the separation that he maintains is fairly obvious compared with some of the really fine strip-outs you see these days, but by contrast, the cut is beautiful and opposite from the cuts you see today, taking the form of a forward uppercut rather than a more typical undercut, it looks quite good and again, different so it gives one some ideas on presentation.
From here he does cut switching, which, when he performs it looks phenominal and certainly gave me a new appreciation for the concept as a very effective pass replacement. Fortunately, in this case the expose is sufficient that you could easily learn the move from the video.
Then he proceeds to a bottom deal, which I found very interesting, in large part due to the grip, which is far from common. It's not a mechanic's grip and it's not an Erdnase grip, but it is very relaxed, more natural than the Erdnase grip and more effective than the mechanic's grip for bottom dealing. I'll have to go back and rewatch his second deals in "The Sting", as I find the dealing style he uses in this expose is again, not so common and quite interesting.
Next, he does something that I'm really not sure how he does. He inserts four aces into a spread and proceeds to perform two riffle shuffles (very fast), he gives the deck a couple of cuts and each time he does he reveals an ace (clear double lift) which turns into a queen. The question remains, how did he locate and control the aces, coupling them with the queens. I've only watched it twice so far, but I'll definately have to watch it again.
He does a couple tricks then, likely slight variations of simple tricks but still interesting.
Next he demonstrates a fairly simple hole card switch, which was nice to see, though not he most sophisticated, though definately functional as he makes evident.
This is followed by a simple, but impressively executed trick.
Last they don't really show much of it, but they give the tail end of a demonstration where three players end up with four of a kind while John ends up with a royal flush.
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| Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:02 am |
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Shadow
Forum Administrator
Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 1654
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Drey, thank you for a nice review. Keep them coming 
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| Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:18 am |
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Drey
Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Posts: 699
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After discussing the previously mentioned four ace revelation (cards inserted into the spread randomly followed by two riffle shuffles and then the display), with Mr. Ortiz, he's convinced me that it is not in fact an impressive feat of skill, but rather a clever trick, which I find somewhat disappointing, but such is life I suppose.
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| Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:36 am |
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Tom Ace
4 Of A Kind
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 209
Location: Maastricht, the Netherlands |
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That was an interesting review Drey.
Do you have the title of this dvd ?
And is it possible to tell me where you bought it?
I've been looking a while ago for this dvd. I heard there was some material of Scarne on dvd, unfortunately , I never got a hand on it.
You only see his hands in this demonstration?
I can imagine that you're disappointed that it was a trick instead of great skill. But then again, if you believed that it was great skill I think Scarne has reached his goal. It reminds me of Scarne's evenings with Arnold Rothstein. You remember... the ace cutting. Not a single soul in that room with rothstein and his guys could find out how he was doing it. No crimps, no brakes etc. Then Scarne told that he glimpsed the indices as they went by in the riffle shuffle while he was counting the cards with his thumb. After the cut, he memorised the posision of the ace and het would cut exactely to it.
I have to say that I think Scarne is also a great story teller. If he could give his reputation a boost by telling such a story in his book, he would do it.
If anyone should be able to do what Scarne did, it has to be Darwin Ortiz, or Steve Forte.
ps: Drey, do you have any information about your a-book? I'm still very interested.
Let me know if you like.
Thanks.
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| Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:19 am |
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Drey
Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Posts: 699
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Do you have the title of this dvd ?
Expose of Sleight of Hand, by John Scarne.
And is it possible to tell me where you bought it?
Walter Donohue's (sp?) website, cost $30 US with free shipping, like I said, it's short.
You only see his hands in this demonstration?
No, you see his face as well in numerous parts of it.
I can imagine that you're disappointed that it was a trick instead of great skill. But then again, if you believed that it was great skill I think Scarne has reached his goal.
Yes, that's what Darwin said too.
It reminds me of Scarne's evenings with Arnold Rothstein. You remember... the ace cutting. Not a single soul in that room with rothstein and his guys could find out how he was doing it. No crimps, no brakes etc. Then Scarne told that he glimpsed the indices as they went by in the riffle shuffle while he was counting the cards with his thumb. After the cut, he memorised the posision of the ace and het would cut exactely to it.
I have to say that I think Scarne is also a great story teller. If he could give his reputation a boost by telling such a story in his book, he would do it.
A lot of people seem to think that many of the things Scarne alledgedly did were too good to be true, there was a discussion I read on the subject of "was he really that good?" it was interesting, mostly he was praised in spite of his ego. Now as for the ace cutting, it's interesting to read what Fulves has to say on the subject as he attempted to repeat the process in early writings, in "Riffle Shuffle Methods", he actually describes the complete method Scarne used and how to use it, which was apparently revealed to him by Scarne, which leads me to believe that the story didn't involve just blowing smoke.
I don't know what Scarne's method was, but I have a method of simulating the same thing. You can borrow a deck of cards, have it freely shuffled as much as the audience wants, then give it one quick shuffle, square the deck and hand it to a spectator who cuts to a card, then you take the deck back and cut to an ace. The method isn't actually THAT hard either. It's nice because it is totally impromptu and is performed with a borrowed deck, purely technique.
If anyone should be able to do what Scarne did, it has to be Darwin Ortiz, or Steve Forte.
Or others that you've never heard of and maybe a couple that you have.
Drey, do you have any information about your a-book? I'm still very interested.
Yeah, it should have been totally finished by now, but I keep getting called away to work for extended periods of time. As it stands, the writing is complete and I'm done a good number of the photographs, I'm just finishing off those photographs and placing them in the document, like I said, it would be done, except for the delays of work, I'm hoping I'll have time very soon now.
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| Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:27 pm |
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Tom Ace
4 Of A Kind
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 209
Location: Maastricht, the Netherlands |
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Drey thanks for the fast reply.
I'll try to get a hand on this dvd of Scarne.
Interesting to hear that Scarne's story actually can be true.
And I'm definitely going to check Fulves "Riffle shuffle methods". I hope this is still easy available. I heard Marlo has a topic on this too. But unfortunately these copies are hard to get.
T.
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"Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today"
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| Fri Aug 05, 2005 2:20 am |
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Drey
Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Posts: 699
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Riffle Shuffle Methods is almost impossible to find, Fulves manuscripts are generally difficult to locate and from what I've been able to determine, Riffle Shuffle Methods is tough to find even by those standards, in fact the only reason I know the manuscript ever existed is because of two or three people who've stated they have a copy.
I've heard stories that Marlo has techniques for doing something similar or the same, but when I read over the Riffle Shuffle Systems manuscripts and the Marlo Magazine I didn't really find anything that makes this possible. The problem with trying to simulate what Scarne did, is first, the removing the deck from your control and second, allowing someone else to cut the deck. For example, on "Prime Time Marlo", Marlo cuts to the aces in a shuffled deck and Jon Racherbaumer says "this is the type of thing old John Scarne was known for, you just saw Marlo do it". The problem is, what Marlo does, really isn't the same, the difference being culling the aces and then revealing them (which Marlo mentions in the Marlo Magazine Volume 6), and truly cutting to them after a shuffle. And in none of these cases do the techniques allow the spectator to cut in between, which of course complicates things significantly.
Fulves also had another method in Riffle Shuffle Technique Part 2, which was published a year before I learned Scarne's method, where he said "I don't know how Scarne performed this feat, but here is a method for cutting to any peeked at card". As I mentioned, this was later replaced by what Fulves describes as "the superb Scarne shuffle control", which Scarne himself demonstrated.
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| Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:55 am |
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Tom Ace
4 Of A Kind
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 209
Location: Maastricht, the Netherlands |
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This is very interesting to read. I guess it will be very hard for me to get hand of a copy.
"The Superb Scarne Shuffle Control" now this sounds almost as good as can be. Have you read how this control works? And do you believe that this shuffle indeed must be the one used by Scarne...?
I don't think it will be possible for you to publish something on this topic in your e-book  ...?
I've never heard before of these
Very unfortunate that these manuscripts are so rare, or maybe this is good. It depends on how you look at it.
I can only say that to me this must be one of the most interesting pieces of card controls out there. Scarne's famous shuffle.
_________________
"Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today"
-James Dean- |
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| Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:16 am |
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Drey
Straight Flush
Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Posts: 699
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"The Superb Scarne Shuffle Control" now this sounds almost as good as can be.
You'd think so, until you consider that it is, despite everything quite old and you never hear about people using it, when compared with say the Steven's cull or things of that nature, so I'm really not sure.
Have you read how this control works? And do you believe that this shuffle indeed must be the one used by Scarne...?
No, I haven't, I've heard from and talked to a couple people who know it and it is apparently quite difficult. Darwin said it had nothing to do with the demonstration Scarne gave in the DVD. I'm not really sure what all's involved.
I don't think it will be possible for you to publish something on this topic in your e-book ...?
As I said, I don't know what Scarne's method was/is, just my own method and no, it isn't in there, some other time perhaps.
I can only say that to me this must be one of the most interesting pieces of card controls out there. Scarne's famous shuffle.
It certainly interests me.
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| Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:49 pm |
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